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Simon_Archibald said:
I only have 3 pythons, all under 2.5 years old, but I don't brumate them at all.

Does anyone else think that as a herp society, we should be putting forward the correct terms so that to the community we present a unified group of enthusiasts? I mean by using the term Brumation?

Simon Archibald



yes keep them coming. Brumation is very different and only occurs in ectothermic animals...also hibernation is a complete shut down but in brumation they do sometimes eat and move around. please correct me if im wrong.
 
Can anyone show me any evidence of any australian snake,python or otherwise hibernating in the wild?
Bruminate yes but hibernate?
 
Many herpers have discovered aggregations within Australian reptiles due to hibernation. Aggregation = multiple animals concealed together similar to garter snakes in Canada when they all hibernate in a cave. I will look for a link and post it if you like.
 
It seems that the paper lists plenty of instances of snakes found aggregating but at the temps listed hardly constitutes that they were hibernating.
 
I doubt you have read the entire list in 8 minutes from start to finish. Many instances show that hibernation was not the main factor to aggregation, however many instances clearly state that the animals found were in a state of torpur in hibernation mode.
 
If you are only using a heat lamp and not heating the cage floor or surrounding room then wouldnt the animal experience brumation anyway as in the wild. If the animal moves and basks in winter but has cold nights then only using a heat lamp would simulate this as it would still get cold at night. Thats how i see it anyway.
 
I think he was using the term hibernation synonymously with brumation in that article. Endothermic animals hibernate, ectotherms brumate. The act of hibernation implies that the animals body temp is allowed to drop to that of it's surroundings, something which reptiles always do really.

By the way Spilota 1, I read that whole article before Ramsayi answered, it's not that big.
 
Here is a few instances indicating hibernation occurring.

During mid winter 1975, Mr. Garry Webb, located an aggregation of two adult Yellow-faced Whip Snakes (Demansia psammophis) and one adult Red-naped Snake (Furina diadema) at Glenbrook N.S.W. (lat 33? 46? S, long 150? 36' E). The aggregation was located on top of a hill in dry, rocky sclerophyll forest. The three snakes were discovered at roughly 10.00am. (local time) and the weather conditions were described as being simply cool, dry and mild. The aggregation was located under a single well embedded sandstone rock measuring approximately 60cm X 90cm X 15cm deep. The soil underneath the rock was dry, sandy and loamy.The rock was not on, or immediately adjacent to any outcrop, simply being sited in an open section of ground in bushland. The three snakes when discovered were coiled up in a group, in a state of apparent torpidity.

During early May 1977, the author located an aggregation of twenty nine Small-eyed Snakes (Cryptophis nigrescens) at Darkes Forest N.S.W. (lat 34? 11' S, long 150? 56? E). The aggregation was discovered at 10.00am. and the weather at the time was cool, calm and sunny, with an average air temperature of around 14?C.
The local habitat was a mixture of sclerophyll forest and farmland and the aggregation was located adjacent to the remains of a demolished house. The remains of the house consisted of a few large slabs of concrete, blocks of wood, sheets of corrugated iron etc., in a partially cleared patch of land. The aggregation was located in a pile of approximately twenty sheets of corrugated iron. The snakes were not all located together, but in clusters ranging from one to four individuals sometimes with more than one cluster between two sheets of corrugated iron. The sheets were positioned directly on top of one another in a tight fitting manner, with only limited amounts of debris between each sheet of tin. The pile of corrugated iron was sitting on moist rich dark soil, typical of the local area. No snakes were located under the bottom sheet of the iron. The regions between each sheet of iron were generally slightly moist, and contained no other snakes besides the twenty nine Small-eyed Snakes. The snakes ranged from juvenile to large adult, with the majority of the snakes being adult. The snakes appeared to be inactive and in a state of hibernation when found.

During early winter 1979, Mr. David Cary located an aggregation of eight adult Small-eyed Snakes (Cryptophis nigrescens) at Kangaroo Valley N.S.W. (lat 34? 45? S, long 150? 33? E). The aggregation was located at midday and the weather at the time was cold and raining lightly, with an average air temperature of around 15?C. The aggregation was located half way up a moist, rocky sclerophyll forest hillside with an easterly aspect. The snakes were located underneath a very large well concealed sandstone rock, covered with roughly 9cms of leaf litter. The rock was well shaded by shrubbery and had the approximate dimensions of 120cm x 120cm X 25cm deep. The rock was on fairly dry, loose, sandy soil. Adjacent to the rock was a cliff face roughly 3m high, with the rock being situated on top of the cliff. The eight adult snakes were in a single cluster, and in a state of torpidity when found.

Clearly states that they were inactive and in a state of torpur.
Season shows this to be winter with low temperatures.
This clearly indicates them to be hibernating to me and those experienced herpers that wrote the paper must have thought the same thing. And I would think that those researching this study and doing actual field work would be better judges on this subject then any of us here dont you think? NSW NPWS also says on their website that Australian snakes hibernate.
 
This whole topic is one that I have found hard to get my head around.
As with lots of hobbies those that know have EARNED the right to know & the rest of us ( I'm talking about myself) are in the process of learning.

I would like to think that a keeper can both breed snakes & have snakes live a long time. I wonder if by not cooling at all we shorten the life of our snakes.

I'm sorry but I don't give a darn about the brumation vs hibernation argument. I'm more interested in the healthiest way to keep all my pythons. It's hard getting info that's consistent on all areas of herping, for me it's a process of elimination & trial & error. I really don't know what arguments like this do except stroke egos!!!

Artie, showed me a great cooling protocol for diamonds that I think was given to him by a zoo keeper. It included the point that even if you're keeping diamonds in an area that is their natural area, if they are not outdoors & have all the available choices that the wild gives them, you as a keeper need to give them those choices artificially. Like a couple hours of (sunlight) heat even in winter.

Love you to post the full version of that on the forum Artie.
 
I was just looking at year old posts to look up information about cooling. Interesting reading folks.
 
Very intresting Slatey but still has me in 2 minds as to what to do.
Tourett
 
I have some wild diamonds in my roof at the moment(big ones) and through winter we see them hanging out in the gutter catchin some rays.

Saxon
 
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