Jungles- non- striped produce- striped

[aoife]

what a stunner!! very nice indeed!!!

 

[moreliainsanity]

taking into proper context the whole quote your refering to was


and it refers to the fact that if striping was casued by incubation temperatures then I would assume that there would be more striped jungles in that one clutch the striped one came from and also striped jungles in other clutches in the same incubator which there wasnt.. What Im saying here is in my case its NOT incubator related at all.

I've been into reptiles for approx 20 years and been breeding for a few too [/quote

Hi Colin,

Thanks for your reply, I'm not asking how long you have been doing reptiles, just how many years of breeding morelia(or jungles) to come up with the conclusion on striping just plain curiousity, nothing more in that question and not for once that i'm questioning on how long you have been doing reptiles.

Apology if my question was misinterpreted.

Leigh

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Congrats and good work Brenton ,
Its going to be a uphill battle to get people to accept stripes are recessive ,
but in my breeding trails here and now with your breeding Brenton is does appear stripes act recessively.
Joels stripes come from proven striped lines through a few generations of selective breeding and are consistantly producing quality stripes .
Nice work Joel
love the stripes guys
cheers
Roger

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Congrats on your Jungle Brenton, nice work!

Striped Jungles.... Frustrating bloody things they are! lol

We've paired a few trick females in the past. A few years ago we paired a stock line female with a pure Palmerston. Both had partial striping. The result was some trick full, thick stripe babies... Definately hold-back worthy.

The next season we paired another Stock line female (sister to the female mentioned above) with another Palmerston male. Both had full head to tail stripes. High hopes were had for some near 'super stripe' offspring. The result was around 70% stripes and 30% blotched/banded offspring. Some were very pretty but none displayed stripes in the same league as the previous years offspring.... Annoying critters!

 

[mungus]

Great striped jungle Brent.
Heres one I bred myself last season.

Is that the one your giving / selling me Colin........:lol::lol:

 

[ihaveherps]

Jungle_Freak, its a big call to say that all stripes are recessive, some may be granted, you have worked long enough with yours to have a fair idea of whats going on there, I do understand that, but its not always the hard and fast rule.

 

[Kersten]

Bred two striped athertons last year, no striped babies. Not even partials.

 

[JasonL]

yes I've heard of that myself Jason and in some cases in may well be the reason... but personally I think striping is genetic. If it was an incubation flaw then I would expect the whole clutch or most of the clutch to have striping? And when you have multiple clutches cooking in an incubator I would also assume that if its caused by incubation temps.. that there would be striped hatchies in most clutches which in my experience has not been the case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all striped animals are caused from incubation temps, but I'm thinking along the lines of incubation temps can change the genetics to a degree to create the striping, creating different patterns / shades within the genetic ability of the particular species of snake. I have recently seen striped diamonds produced from two normal coloured southern Sydney locale parents, and BHP's from the same clutch come out light and dark, the light ones were incubated from the top of the incubator hatched early, the grubby dark ones at the bottom, hatched a week later. It would not suprise me one bit if hatchlings from two striped animals came out with stripes, even if it was incubation temps that caused the striping in the parents in the first place, at the same time it wouldn't suprise me if they threw back normal one as well.

 

[Colin]

Is that the one your giving / selling me Colin........:lol::lol:

you just never know mate I will put you on the short list though when I breed her and if she does thow some nice stripies ok
Private messaging you a pic of the male I will be using over her

 

[Colin]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all striped animals are caused from incubation temps, but I'm thinking along the lines of incubation temps can change the genetics to a degree to create the striping, creating different patterns / shades within the genetic ability of the particular species of snake. I have recently seen striped diamonds produced from two normal coloured southern Sydney locale parents, and BHP's from the same clutch come out light and dark, the light ones were incubated from the top of the incubator hatched early, the grubby dark ones at the bottom, hatched a week later. It would not suprise me one bit if hatchlings from two striped animals came out with stripes, even if it was incubation temps that caused the striping in the parents in the first place, at the same time it wouldn't suprise me if they threw back normal one as well.

yes I understand what your saying mate. these stripes are one of those grey areas I think that no one really actually knows for sure yet. cheers

 

[coz666]

wicked brenton
you can throw one of mine over it in a couple of years. if you want to go stripe to stripe pairing.
after all the dramas of the storms , looks as though you have done really well this season.
good on ya mate

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Kerston,
thats interesting that you did not get any stripes from striped breeding pair,
what patterns did you get ?
any pics ?
Simon ,
i have herd that others have had varying results ,
to me its possible that the non genetic stripes could be temp related ,???
i do need to do a lot more breeding trails ,
i now have a pair of coastal sibs to breed so ill see how that goes .
both have lateral striping ?
but there were banded and stripes in the clutch,
will see how that goes.
Also i suppose its possible my stripes are genetic and other stripes are not,
but with stripes being so common in the wild ,
i feel that stripes are all genetic and recessive,but in a different way to whats is known now.
i could end up being wrong .
time will tell,
Roger

 

[Frozenmouse]

so if you breed 2 striped jungles together where in the striping was caused by incubation temps then the offspring should be normal if the temps are normal.

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Yes Dabool
if 2 adult striped carpets are bred together and none of the hatchlings have stripes ?
i would suspect that the stripes in the adults was temp related during incubation.

Also there are many reason to explain the various striped offspring ratios in clutches sired by striped adults,
if a bloodline has been selectively bred for stripes for years or if there are several ancesters with stripes in the bloodline, your ratio of stripes goes up,and can vary a lot.


cheers
Roger

 

[Den from Den Pythons]

Roger. Sometimes people may get a little confused on the difference between 'selectively bred for a specific trait' and a 'morph'. My guess is that the majority of striped Jungles around display stripes identical to natural pattern variance. Some others have enhanced stripes achieved through selective breeding and a small amount may be a morph, like the ones you have been working on and have proven.

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Den , thats true mate,
there are differences ,
selective breeding produces better and better stripes for sure, but breeding stripes that way does not prove the mode of inheritance,
same as breeding albino to albino to each other produces more albinos , but to prove if the trait is genetic ,
you need to breed albino to normal, then breed the normal or het offspring back to albino to prove how the trait in recessive,
same thing for stripes, if people breed stripe to stripe , you get varying clutch ratios depending on the ancestors with stripes,
but to prove your stripes are genetic you breed your stripe to a normal,
then breed the offspring back to the striped parent,
if your stripe is genetic it you should get 1/4 of the clutch striped like the striped adult ,
proving the stripe is inherited,
but i have seen it many times 2 banded jungles will produce semi stripes or a stripe of two, usually 1/4 of the banded to banded clutch can be showing some striping,
proving there are hidden stripes in the ancestors and they parents are hets for stripes,

this kind of recessive genetics in striping is not proven to science,
this is my problem,
but since i have proven my stripes as genetic,
its mode of inheritance is different to simple recessive,
so with me having this theory, althought i have proved my stripes,
im saying things that most will not agree with, i understand this,
but i ask people to do there own striped to normal breeding trail, then take the offspring and breed it back to the striped parent,
you will get 1 /4 of the clutch striped, proving the mode of inheritance,
yes its all very complicated ,
yes ill be told im wrong,
but if others had done the same trails as me
they would reach the same conclusions.
in time if people start breeding for stripes like the example i gave, many many people can prove if there stripes are genetic too, and see the recessive type mode of inheritance,
but it is very complicated
as my theory is not proven by scientist yet and not accepted,

but im sure there are people who will find out about this mode of inheritance for stripes.with there own breeding trails,
so please try it ,

 

[Frozenmouse]

thanks roger you have cleared up some questions that have been bugging me for a while.
Here is a tully female i have with a stripe that runs about 90%svl for a future project sorry about photo quality she is um fiesty

 

[Frozenmouse]

and her boyfriend

 

[Jungle_Freak]

Very nice jungles dabool
who bred the tully girl mate

 

[Frozenmouse]

thank you i think it came from a qld. breeder and the male comes from luke ridley