peterescue
Very Well-Known Member
humble opinion, you have a humble opinion :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ooh! my stomache hurts.
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- Thread starter lutzd
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humble opinion, you have a humble opinion :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ooh! my stomache hurts.
Come on Pete , i'm trying to be nice . Making fun of my humble opinion is not helping matters :lol: . Some people have brought it to my attenation that i should try to be nice , what do you think ? , is it working ? :wink:
theplantguys
Active Member
Fuscus said:
blue no red ....... aaaahhhhh.
now to my 2.5 cents worth (government took the other 2.5 cents from me in tax)
clean up posiable snake hides, remove food sources, like the earlier suggestion of "have a gain storage in another area", not knowing myself but this sounds like a good idea too me.
Feel sorry for the horses, but also for the snakes they are just doing their thing (both of them)
i personally think these owners should be rewarded (with help and suggestions that is) as they are intrested in helpig the snakes move without being hurt, it says more for them even after they have lost pets, I know i would be upset if i lost animals to something/someone not that i would hurt an animal to prevent it from happening in the future however. There is something to be said also over the fact that it is the snakes area and not the horses but why cannot they get along? have to in surburba, perhaps prodied them with an area with hides and food at some point in the property? try to keep them in that area, not sure i dont know a lot about wild snakes home area? just a thought thats all.
sorry i couldnt help more hopefully some great ideas will come out of some more experoenced people here.
kel
Well-Known Member
there is an old wives tale of planting geraniums(spl) to keep snakes away and in my opinion it works as we have them and havent had any snakes in our yard, our neighbours dont have them and often get snakes , but having said that i dont know if geraniums would be deadly to the horses, i also agree with cleaning up or fencing off snakey areas
ihaveherps
Well-Known Member
I know that there is an injection for working dogs which is a small dose of venom, which allows the dogs immune system to create anti-bodies. Obviously these injections would have to be regional specific, as a brown snake "booster" wouldnt help much in Tassie.... I am sure the multi-million dollar horse industry has looked into such options and such "boosters" may be available, if not I'm off to copyright my idea now. Anti-vemon laboratories actually use (or used) cows and chickens to create anti-venom by using gradually increasing amounts to increase tolerance thus anti-bodies, and then use a concoction of both (chook and cow) as their immune systems fight the toxins differently. Funnily enough the chooks got the better deal, as the cows had to donate blood to get their white blood cells, but battery hens produce eggs daily, and the yolk of an egg has one quarter of the hens blood invested in it.
My apologies if in-coherent or taking tangents, Mr Jonnie Walker had quite an influence.....
My apologies if in-coherent or taking tangents, Mr Jonnie Walker had quite an influence.....
mciver
Active Member
To snake or not to snake, that is the question.
I'm with Bluey & Rocky here, give 'em a go. They came to us (as professionals) for advice.
To the horse owners, I'd say all the answers are here, you just need to sort the wheat from the chaff (no pun...). You need to forgive some of these guys for their bizarre way of "advising" people about issues that are of concern to them. It's a bit of a sport for them to give a newbie a hard time.
However I am also perplexed at the degree of loss you have experienced, and I can only guess you are new to property ownership and are not aware of the sensible things required for maintaining horses outside a stable. Just my opinion.
I too have spent a number of years on a farm and we had a rather lage collection of animals ranging from chooks through to horses cattle and goats. I was engaged in stock feed manufacture and we had large amounts of grain-based product on site at all times. We also had an ongoing battle with mice, but despite that and the large chook yard we also had, we never lost a single animal to snake bite. The one time we saw snakes in the proximity of our horses, it was the horses that alerted us to the two red belied blacks mating just near the house. We all watched the show (from the balcony, while knocking back a few coldies) and then I relocated Romeo & Juliet away from the house. The horses well and truly saw the reps before we did however they weren't spooked, just cautious; they even watched the matinee too.
This brings me to another point. Do you know for sure this is what happened to your horses? Could it have been a result of poisoning from “Curse” or over feeding on clovers, Lucerne or the like? Did you feed sheep feed containing Urea? Did you inadvertently put out a lick block containing urea? Did a vet perform a post mortem or toxicology check? And of course the big one, did you actually “see” the attacks, and if so why did you not do something?
I’m not trying to have a crack at you but from what you have indicated, there may be some basic animal management practice issues here that have been breeched and the old snake has copped the rap.
From what you say your property is herper heaven, some of the guys on this site would kill to go to an area so infested with snakes just to observe them. By and large no such places are rare, as snakes are pretty canny when it comes to keeping away from us humans and equines too.
I think if you follow the good info offered by some of these “herpheads” you’ll see your “snake” problem disappear. If your stock continue to drop, I’d look at some of the things I have suggested along with worming practice and schedules, lice infestation, and so forth because whatever it is that’s bringing down your stock has a common denominator it seems.
All the best
I hope you suffer no further losses
Paul
I'm with Bluey & Rocky here, give 'em a go. They came to us (as professionals) for advice.
To the horse owners, I'd say all the answers are here, you just need to sort the wheat from the chaff (no pun...). You need to forgive some of these guys for their bizarre way of "advising" people about issues that are of concern to them. It's a bit of a sport for them to give a newbie a hard time.
However I am also perplexed at the degree of loss you have experienced, and I can only guess you are new to property ownership and are not aware of the sensible things required for maintaining horses outside a stable. Just my opinion.
I too have spent a number of years on a farm and we had a rather lage collection of animals ranging from chooks through to horses cattle and goats. I was engaged in stock feed manufacture and we had large amounts of grain-based product on site at all times. We also had an ongoing battle with mice, but despite that and the large chook yard we also had, we never lost a single animal to snake bite. The one time we saw snakes in the proximity of our horses, it was the horses that alerted us to the two red belied blacks mating just near the house. We all watched the show (from the balcony, while knocking back a few coldies) and then I relocated Romeo & Juliet away from the house. The horses well and truly saw the reps before we did however they weren't spooked, just cautious; they even watched the matinee too.
This brings me to another point. Do you know for sure this is what happened to your horses? Could it have been a result of poisoning from “Curse” or over feeding on clovers, Lucerne or the like? Did you feed sheep feed containing Urea? Did you inadvertently put out a lick block containing urea? Did a vet perform a post mortem or toxicology check? And of course the big one, did you actually “see” the attacks, and if so why did you not do something?
I’m not trying to have a crack at you but from what you have indicated, there may be some basic animal management practice issues here that have been breeched and the old snake has copped the rap.
From what you say your property is herper heaven, some of the guys on this site would kill to go to an area so infested with snakes just to observe them. By and large no such places are rare, as snakes are pretty canny when it comes to keeping away from us humans and equines too.
I think if you follow the good info offered by some of these “herpheads” you’ll see your “snake” problem disappear. If your stock continue to drop, I’d look at some of the things I have suggested along with worming practice and schedules, lice infestation, and so forth because whatever it is that’s bringing down your stock has a common denominator it seems.
All the best
I hope you suffer no further losses
Paul
Fuscus
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Did a google on the subject
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=horse+snake+bite&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
this is of interest http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1164270&dopt=Abstract as one horse in the sample of 4 died from oz snake bite. It appears that if a snake gets bitten on the muzzle it may experence breathing difficulties
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=horse+snake+bite&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
this is of interest http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1164270&dopt=Abstract as one horse in the sample of 4 died from oz snake bite. It appears that if a snake gets bitten on the muzzle it may experence breathing difficulties
petew
New Member
Hear Hear
Greetings
I understand your concern. I have experienced similar loses over years I have been farming as a primary producer (Dairy) in Victorias North. My losses to snakes (mainly tigers) are quite minimal considering these deaths to date number only 5 Calves, 2 Cows and a Horse. My Herd sizes have ranged from 800 cows on 850 acres to 160 cows on 200 acres.
In three of these stock deaths the unfortunate snakes have also died having been "stomped on". In the other deaths when the dead stock has been removed I have requested an Autopsy - just in case it isn't something more severe which will effect the rest of my stock. (This Autopsy can be done free of charge through your local Abattoir - dead stock removalist). Or your own vet can conduct the autopsy at a cost. My opinion is spend the money.
I have attributed these snake encounters with as already mentioned in previous posts to Grain and Hay being stored in close vacinity (25 metres away) to the livestock (calves that were shedded). Attracting a bountiful mouse population for these hungry snakes
The cows were both bitten near water (irrigation channels) as well as the horse (marshy ground). Perhaps your creek is also equally attractive to a snake hungry for frogs and other inhabitance ?
Although Livestock whether cows or horses in my opinion has a natural fear of snakes, they also have a curious nature and in saying so have witnessed a horse run from a young tiger snake in fear and then run back to it to watch and try to smell it.
It is not practical for me to keep my herd away from known snake Hot Spots. Which may or may not be practical for you and your horses either.
But in the protection against future snake encounters I would be very hesitant to let them graze along your creek. Due to the type of country (Flat and flood irrigated) I am located on there is not a great deal of cover for snakes and in nearly every sighting of a tiger or brown I have been around water sources. I would if at all practical provide a Pressurized trough instead and fence the creek off. As also previously mentioned in prior posts, I would make sure the assigned grazing paddock is clear of rubble ( tin, car bodies, wood stacks etc).
If in fact these deaths have not been caused by snakes, I would as mentioned by Mciver start looking at the fodder you are giving your horses as most grain based feed designed for cattle-sheep is quite toxic to equines in small amounts. I would also be immediatly requesting a vet to run full blood/urine/faece tests on the remaining horses.
Although I am curious to know of the symptoms your horses showed prior to death only a trained vet could Diagnosis the cause.
Hope this helps
Good luck
.
I understand your concern. I have experienced similar loses over years I have been farming as a primary producer (Dairy) in Victorias North. My losses to snakes (mainly tigers) are quite minimal considering these deaths to date number only 5 Calves, 2 Cows and a Horse. My Herd sizes have ranged from 800 cows on 850 acres to 160 cows on 200 acres.
In three of these stock deaths the unfortunate snakes have also died having been "stomped on". In the other deaths when the dead stock has been removed I have requested an Autopsy - just in case it isn't something more severe which will effect the rest of my stock. (This Autopsy can be done free of charge through your local Abattoir - dead stock removalist). Or your own vet can conduct the autopsy at a cost. My opinion is spend the money.
I have attributed these snake encounters with as already mentioned in previous posts to Grain and Hay being stored in close vacinity (25 metres away) to the livestock (calves that were shedded). Attracting a bountiful mouse population for these hungry snakes
The cows were both bitten near water (irrigation channels) as well as the horse (marshy ground). Perhaps your creek is also equally attractive to a snake hungry for frogs and other inhabitance ?
Although Livestock whether cows or horses in my opinion has a natural fear of snakes, they also have a curious nature and in saying so have witnessed a horse run from a young tiger snake in fear and then run back to it to watch and try to smell it.
It is not practical for me to keep my herd away from known snake Hot Spots. Which may or may not be practical for you and your horses either.
But in the protection against future snake encounters I would be very hesitant to let them graze along your creek. Due to the type of country (Flat and flood irrigated) I am located on there is not a great deal of cover for snakes and in nearly every sighting of a tiger or brown I have been around water sources. I would if at all practical provide a Pressurized trough instead and fence the creek off. As also previously mentioned in prior posts, I would make sure the assigned grazing paddock is clear of rubble ( tin, car bodies, wood stacks etc).
If in fact these deaths have not been caused by snakes, I would as mentioned by Mciver start looking at the fodder you are giving your horses as most grain based feed designed for cattle-sheep is quite toxic to equines in small amounts. I would also be immediatly requesting a vet to run full blood/urine/faece tests on the remaining horses.
Although I am curious to know of the symptoms your horses showed prior to death only a trained vet could Diagnosis the cause.
Hope this helps
Good luck
.
dee4
Very Well-Known Member
Well, although a lot have tried to make sense of what they think is correct they all seem to fail with common sense. I tend to agree with some of you but none more than the previous post by my neighbor on the land Pandora.
If you are not directly involved with horses or the enviroment that they live in and share with our magnificent creatures, I don't think that you can speak from exprience, you can only talk the talk but not actually walk it.
If you are not directly involved with horses or the enviroment that they live in and share with our magnificent creatures, I don't think that you can speak from exprience, you can only talk the talk but not actually walk it.
mciver
Active Member
Dee,
I certainly did do the walk on the 520 ac we had. Although it was a small acreage by comparison to the “working” farms around me it did have a sufficient DSE so as to enable the stocking of a large variety of animals albeit in small numbers per species for research purposes. My post was directed at the possibility that the horses may not have died from snakebite and the fact that it seemed incredible that so much stock could be killed in a relatively small acreage.
Furthermore the person requesting the info did so through a member and not directly so any one replying would not be able to get supplementary information to complete the picture. We all had to make some assumptions regarding the situation before giving the advice offered.
As for drawing such a long bow when you say the members replying all failed with common sense, I think that's a bit harsh, particularly when you go on to say you agree with some of them.
A lot of their advice was good advice; Pandora reiterated some of it. Pandora by the way did submit a very good reply, and also alluded to stocking levels vs. Acreage. I think the other members were just trying to help. Just because they may not have owned horses and/or rural property before doesn’t necessarily disqualify them from commenting.
As an ex stockfeed manufacturer and supplier, I have seen a number of “Horse people” who would be less qualified to comment than the members on this site. I rescued a few of their horses when they were deemed to be “No good”.
[Warning! Attempt at light relief follows. Do not take seriously] I know people who criticise airline food all the time and none of them can even fly a Jumbo! Or to put it another way: The majority of the men and women that enabled man to land on the moon had never been in space themselves.
Anyway, what I’m trying to say I guess is give bouquets not bricks to those who try to help, lest they become discouraged from doing so in the future.
Best regards
Paul
I certainly did do the walk on the 520 ac we had. Although it was a small acreage by comparison to the “working” farms around me it did have a sufficient DSE so as to enable the stocking of a large variety of animals albeit in small numbers per species for research purposes. My post was directed at the possibility that the horses may not have died from snakebite and the fact that it seemed incredible that so much stock could be killed in a relatively small acreage.
Furthermore the person requesting the info did so through a member and not directly so any one replying would not be able to get supplementary information to complete the picture. We all had to make some assumptions regarding the situation before giving the advice offered.
As for drawing such a long bow when you say the members replying all failed with common sense, I think that's a bit harsh, particularly when you go on to say you agree with some of them.
A lot of their advice was good advice; Pandora reiterated some of it. Pandora by the way did submit a very good reply, and also alluded to stocking levels vs. Acreage. I think the other members were just trying to help. Just because they may not have owned horses and/or rural property before doesn’t necessarily disqualify them from commenting.
As an ex stockfeed manufacturer and supplier, I have seen a number of “Horse people” who would be less qualified to comment than the members on this site. I rescued a few of their horses when they were deemed to be “No good”.
[Warning! Attempt at light relief follows. Do not take seriously] I know people who criticise airline food all the time and none of them can even fly a Jumbo! Or to put it another way: The majority of the men and women that enabled man to land on the moon had never been in space themselves.
Anyway, what I’m trying to say I guess is give bouquets not bricks to those who try to help, lest they become discouraged from doing so in the future.
Best regards
Paul
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