Multiple gecko deaths :( please help

[Brianna]

Dear herpers,

I have been keeping pythons for more than ten years now and geckos for about 6.

I have had 2 male and 3 female knob tailed geckos die and 2 female milli die in the last five months and I am totally devastated and heart broken.

I can't work out what is causing the deaths and I am hoping one of you herpers with many years of experience can help me to prevent any future deaths.

Most of the geckos who died I had bought as fully grown adults and have had for six years, except for one female levis levis which I bred 4 years ago.

The geckos are in the same enclosures as they have been for the past six years. (Exo Terra 45 x 45 x 45 and 60 x 45 x 45). I moved house in 2009 and they have been in the same room since the day I moved.

I haven't changed the heating, and I don’t use lights for the geckos, although there is ambient light from the window, which comes off the garage so there is not any significant amount of heat going into the room, and also light from the monitor enclosure which is opposite the geckos. The temperatures don’t go below 16 at the cool end or above 32 at the hot end of each enclosure.

I feed crickets 3 times a week dusting with calcium every third feed.

In each enclosure I have a box of moist sand for the geckos to burrow in and multiple hides so that the geckos can be in a hide at whatever temperature they need. I also mist the enclosures when the sand is looking dry.

I put carrot in the enclosures so that any uneaten crickets will go for that and not the geckos.

The first two geckos that died; a male and female levis levis in separate enclosures, did look a bit ill a week before they passed away, in that they looked a bit dehydrated even though they always had access to fresh water, their enclosures were misted and they had moist sand in their sand boxes. These two began to look a bit lethargic and then passed away.

The others have looked and behaved normally until being found dead.

The only environmental things I can think of that have changed in the time that the geckos have started dying are a) that the next door neighbours are building an extension to their house and b) I have had a rainwater pump installed so that now all the water that comes out of the taps in the house is rainwater and not tap water.

I started working in Canberra four months ago, but am home at least every second weekend, more when I can, and my partner cares for the geckos while I am away. He has looked after them while I have been away on numerous occasions over the last six years and this has never happened before. To my knowledge he is caring for the geckos exactly as I do.

On the one hand as I bought the geckos all within about a year as adults, it is not impossible that the deaths are due to old age. However one of the geckos was one that I had bred only four years ago and seemed very healthy. Also I would have expected that if they were to die of old age, they would look a bit old and weaker and in general have a sort of winding down period rather than look healthy one day and dead the next. Is that a correct assumption?

Does anybody have any idea what could be causing this?

The geckos are in separate enclosures, so if it was some kind of infectious disease it would need to be airborne.

I can’t think of anything my partner could be doing anything wrong when he cares for them in my absence, but if anybody can think of anything he might unwittingly be doing that could cause them to die I would love to know.

Does anybody think it could have anything to do with the renos next door in terms of any chemicals or noise/vibrations causing stress? Or that it could have anything to do with using rainwater instead of tap water?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions you might have and for your time in reading this.

Brianna

 

[dannydee]

I was just wondering if you gut load the crickets before you offer them as food??

Also the leopard geckos I got as adults, just dropped dead one day. I had them for almost 10 years until they died, plus I didn't notice anything wrong before hand.

 

[Specks]

Old age ...?

 

[Brianna]

I don't gut load the crickets at all, I just dust them with calcium powder every third feed.

It could be old age with most of them I suppose, however one that died was definitely only four years old as I bred her myself.

I have read that they lived to around ten years, and I bought them when they were at least a year old so they would have been at least seven but possibly older.

 

[GeckoJosh]

Has anyone used fly spray near them?

 

[sharky]

Oh, that is a real bummer I am so so sorry for your loss there mate I have no idea what could have caused this but for them all to die around the same time is very strange indeed...I don't think it would be the rain water unless something (a bird or possum, etc) has drowned in your rainwater tank and it has contaminated the water. All my herps get rain water and are all healthy so I don't think it would be that unless the water has been contaminated.
You could always take the into a herp vet and get them examined and they'll find what caused this.
Best wishes to you and your partner.

 

[dannydee]

I'm surprised they lived that long to be honest Brianna, because unless you're collecting the crickets yourself from the wild, the ones in the pet shops are basically devoid of any nutritional value by the time you get them home. They are basically empty shells, as they have passed their stomach contents.

When I kept geckos, I would gut load the crickets first. It was pretty easy really, just keep them in a plastic tank with a jam jar lid full of fish food flakes and another one with sliced carrots. As soon as they went into this tank, they would start eating straight away, as they were obviously really hungry. Fish food is great to feed them, as it contains loads of nutrients and they find it easy to eat. The carrot just quenches their thirst.

Let them eat for a day, then feed them to the geckos. A gut loaded cricket is the corner stone to any nutritional gecko meal!!

 

[Brianna]

Definitely not in the house, I don't use fly spray at all as I also have frogs. I had double checked before my first post that my partner hasn't been using any new chemicals or anything. A neighbour could have used fly sprays outside within about ten metres of the reptile room window which I occassionally open for fresh air but I would have thought that would be unlikely to affect them.

I am lucky to have brilliant neighbours so I will ask them if they have been using any strong chemicals outside just in case.

I've discovered that the carrots my partner has been putting in the enclosures for the crickets weren't organic, which is what I usually use, but he did wash them first.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok Dannydee I will try that. I do buy the crickets the day they arrive in the store I buy them from, so I don't know whether they would have passed all of their stomach contents by the time I am feeding but who knows.

I'm willing to try anything at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

I would take them to a vet but the ones I have left all look perfectly normal, I can't imagine there is anything a vet could say about them. The ones that have died also looked perfectly healthy when they died apart from two which looked mildly dehydrated. I have only had to take two reps to a vet before and I visited two different vets who were allegedly reptile specialists, and neither were of any use at all. Otherwise I would immediately take the one that has just died for a necropsy.

 

[junglepython2]

Possibly contaminated feed?

 

[Wild~Touch]

Could it be over heating ?

Thickies don't like this hot weather ... Mine sit in their waterbowls on hot days and I try to keep the enclosures misted

 

[Brianna]

I'm wondering about possibly contaminated feed. I feed them all from the same live food supplier which is always bought from the same pet shop. I haven't had any deaths with the marbled velvet geckos which I feed larger crickets to. But then the deaths have been over a period of five months, not all at once.

I also feed the same brand of crickets bought from the same store to my fat tailed dunnarts which are fine and to my trio of ackies, which are also fine. But then the ackies and dunnarts get quite a variety of other foods too.

The thicktail that was found dead by my partner this morning (I'm interstate until Thursday) had no heating in the enclosure. I live in a 100 year old house which has very thick walls and inside the house stays quite cool. I understand Adelaide got to about 35 yesterday, so I doubt it would have been more than 25 inside tops.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you for all your suggestions so far everybody.

 

[PeppersGirl]

Not sure to what extent noise or vibration could upset some geckos, and whether it could be stress related - as some have higher tolerances than others depending on the individual. I've had things die of stress (that look very healthy until the moment you find them dead) and it may fit considering it's the only significant change.
Have heard that geckos are sensitive to that sort of thing, but would need some clarification on that point.

 

[Ramsayi]

Could be lots of things ranging from internal parasites (which they can get from crickets etc) to calcium deficiencies (even though you add calcium).


If you really need answers then your best bet would be to take any that die to a vet so they can take a look and perhaps give you a definitive answer.

 

[davobmx]

Possibly something in the rainwater tank or drainage getting into the water.
Could be something deadly in it or taste bad and stop them drinking.

 

[geckodan]

There are any number of options, from toxic, viral, bacterial (are they misted regularly - Pseudomonas can establish within a misting bottle over time) or parasitic. Regardless, over the time span there is no way to determine if all the deaths are linked. Histopathology is the way to go. Submit the whole deceased animal for examination. It won't matter who your vet is as all the samples go to the same lab. Ask for a specimen container, place the whole animal in the container with its belly skin split so the preservative can enter and ask for a multiorgan histopathological examination. The pathologist will then collect the samples needed.

 

[saintanger]

have you checked the heating as some thermostats fail after a few years or maybe faulty.

i recently had a amyae die. he was 9 months old, he looked lethargic and dehydrated and did not eat, i misted him and next day he was dead. i used a heat cord conected to a thermostat. i noticed it felt hotter than normal wen i picked him up. so i checked the thermostat which was set to 30 for the hot end of the tank and it said 30 then i got a digital thermomoter and check and it was 36 not 30, i had a faulty thermostat.

sorry about your loss, its hard losing a loved pet let alone so many.

 

[junglepython2]

have you checked the heating as some thermostats fail after a few years or maybe faulty.

i recently had a amyae die. he was 9 months old, he looked lethargic and dehydrated and did not eat, i misted him and next day he was dead. i used a heat cord conected to a thermostat. i noticed it felt hotter than normal wen i picked him up. so i checked the thermostat which was set to 30 for the hot end of the tank and it said 30 then i got a digital thermomoter and check and it was 36 not 30, i had a faulty thermostat.

sorry about your loss, its hard losing a loved pet let alone so many.

Did you calibrate the thermostat when you first set it up?

 

[Brianna]

I have tested the temps on numerous occasions and am satisfied that is not the cause.

Thanks for that info GeckoDan (your books are on my Christmas wish list by the way). That is so useful to know as I hadn't realised it would be sent off.

How soon does a specimen need to be taken to the lab? Just wondering whether it is too late if I get it there Monday seeing as vet is closed tomorrow. I'll ask for specimen container in case I lose another in any case.

can I ask what age span you have found your knobbies and thick tails to have?

i do mist regularly.

is bleaching and thoroughly rinsing spray bottles best way to fix that if that is the case?