Orange Naped Snake question

[falconboy]

Hey all,

I'd love a red naped snake, however they are very few and far between. I have the chance to purchase, however, an orange naped snake. These are technically not listed on the NPWS reptile list, however from discussions with experienced herpers, if I can source one, they will/may/can put it on licence. I will call them tomorrow to discuss this aspect.

But my question is this. I don't have a real interest in keeping most snakes due to their size, and the only python that interests me is a black and gold jungle, and from what I can tell they aren't always a calm, friendly snake, so no thanks. I would only want to keep the naped snakes. Keeping in mind I haven't had a great deal (any really) handling experience with snakes, other than the odd well socialised snakes at zoos etc so my concern is handling this thing - yeah, I know its only small, but technically venomous (but supposedly harmless). Now, hopefully I'll get a response from someone who has kept (not sure how likely that is) or at least regularly handled these snakes as to how 'careful' I would need to be with it.

Basically am I correct in assuming its very unlikely to strike, and if it does, its even more unlikely to sink its teeth in due to its size, and if it does, that its venom is so weak I won't, or am unlikely to have a reaction to it?

Due to their scarcity there seems to be a lot of general info on where they occur and photos of them, but very little in their keeping/handling.

Probably not an ideal first snake, but its the only type I'm interested in, and if its ok to handle by hand rather than having to worry about being envenomated when its handled, then I don't see why it can't be a good first snake. Yes, I'm aware of its main food source being skinks etc and thats something I will be discussing with NPWS too. I've done as much research as I really can into a snake that is rarely kept in captivity.

I had an interest in the red naped prior to ever seeing one in real life, but came across a rescued one at a Wires course - and I'm hooked. What an adorable snake.

Can anyone offer advice?

It may not go ahead, but I've been offered it so have to look into doing it now or I may not have another chance!

 

[waruikazi]

Hey all,

I'd love a red naped snake, however they are very few and far between. I have the chance to purchase, however, an orange naped snake. These are technically not listed on the NPWS reptile list, however from discussions with experienced herpers, if I can source one, they will/may/can put it on licence. I will call them tomorrow to discuss this aspect.

But my question is this. I don't have a real interest in keeping most snakes due to their size, and the only python that interests me is a black and gold jungle, and from what I can tell they aren't always a calm, friendly snake, so no thanks. I would only want to keep the naped snakes. Keeping in mind I haven't had a great deal (any really) handling experience with snakes, other than the odd well socialised snakes at zoos etc so my concern is handling this thing - yeah, I know its only small, but technically venomous (but supposedly harmless). Now, hopefully I'll get a response from someone who has kept (not sure how likely that is) or at least regularly handled these snakes as to how 'careful' I would need to be with it. I've kept them for short periods, upto two moths, and they are not great handlers and i wouldn't reccomend getting one if you plan on handling it.

Basically am I correct in assuming its very unlikely to strike, and if it does, its even more unlikely to sink its teeth in due to its size, and if it does, that its venom is so weak I won't, or am unlikely to have a reaction to it? You will get some kind of reaction to the venom it may not be too bad at first but there is a chance that you will develop an qllergic reaction to the venom which could kill you.

Due to their scarcity there seems to be a lot of general info on where they occur and photos of them, but very little in their keeping/handling.

Probably not an ideal first snake, but its the only type I'm interested in, and if its ok to handle by hand rather than having to worry about being envenomated when its handled, then I don't see why it can't be a good first snake. Yes, I'm aware of its main food source being skinks etc and thats something I will be discussing with NPWS too. I've done as much research as I really can into a snake that is rarely kept in captivity. They are a terrible first snake, young ones are stupidly small and would be near impossible to get feeding on anything and i have only heard of one adult that would take pinky rat drumsticks on its own. I have heard of three others that have force fed on rodents.

I had an interest in the red naped prior to ever seeing one in real life, but came across a rescued one at a Wires course - and I'm hooked. What an adorable snake.

Can anyone offer advice?

It may not go ahead, but I've been offered it so have to look into doing it now or I may not have another chance!

To be completely honest it sounds like a bad idea to me. But if that is what tickles you then all i can wish you is luck. JonnofromERD has had a bit of experience with them in captivity maybe ask him about them.

Who has offered you one? I'm not interested in them but if it is a wild caught specimen from the NT can you PM who they are coming from?

 

[falconboy]

Thanks for your reply mate. You may be right, it may be a difficult first snake, especially since its a wild caught (legally wild caught) NT specimen. I'll at least talk to NPWS and see what the deal is.

 

[cris]

They would probably quite boring to keep too, but i guess not as boring as a python. I cant see why they would be hard to feed, garden skinks come in very small sizes and are quite abundant in most areas. As an adult you would need heaps or a larger species i would imagine.

They do look very nice though, i would probably consider getting some if i had space for more new snakes.

Does anyone know if they will eat geckos?

 

[waruikazi]

They would probably quite boring to keep too, but i guess not as boring as a python. I cant see why they would be hard to feed, garden skinks come in very small sizes and are quite abundant in most areas. As an adult you would need heaps or a larger species i would imagine.

They do look very nice though, i would probably consider getting some if i had space for more new snakes.

Does anyone know if they will eat geckos?

The biggest problem with garden skinks and AHG's is that they carry worms and other nasties, and i don't know how a furina would go feeding on thawed lizards. IMO if you have a long term skink or gecko feeder you will end up with a dead snake due to diseases and worms.

 

[PhilK]

I suppose you could freeze the food item for long enough to kill the parasites.

Alternatively you could just worm the snake regularly.

 

[jamgo]

The biggest problem with garden skinks and AHG's is that they carry worms and other nasties, and i don't know how a furina would go feeding on thawed lizards. IMO if you have a long term skink or gecko feeder you will end up with a dead snake due to diseases and worms.

snakes can be kept on a diet of skinks and geckoes without problems has long has it has a stress free environment and is wormed every now and again or if loss of conditionand most lizard feeders will accept thawed an example of a lizard feeder

 

[cris]

snakes can be kept on a diet of skinks and geckoes without problems has long has it has a stress free environment and is wormed every now and again or if loss of conditionView attachment 77715and most lizard feeders will accept thawed an example of a lizard feeder

I thought this would be the case, snakes are adapted to eating these sort of food items most of the time parasites should only cause a problem in combination with bad husbandry. Nice pic :lol:

 

[falconboy]

Thanks for all your help guys, but I'm going to give this little guy a miss.

 

[anguskennedy]

Is it legal to feed live reptiles (eg skinks, geckos etc)?

 

[mcloughlin2]

Apparentely it is legal to feed garden skinks for problematic feeders. The only gecko that is ethical and legal to feed is asian house geckos and since your not located in QLD you won't be able to get any of them.

 

[anguskennedy]

Oh OK - where did you get that information from?

 

[slacker]

I don't know about other states, but in QLD it is legal to harvest certain common skink species for animals that won't eat anything else.

 

[butters]

The biggest problem with garden skinks and AHG's is that they carry worms and other nasties, and i don't know how a furina would go feeding on thawed lizards. IMO if you have a long term skink or gecko feeder you will end up with a dead snake due to diseases and worms.

How long do you have to wait for the animal to die due to diseases and/or worms due to feeding live skinks/geckos?

The reason I ask is that years ago I kept Burton's and fed them nothing but garden skinks ( no AHG's in Brissy back then) and in the four years I had them I never had any issues.

I will hopefully be getting some more soon as a friend has some eggs cooking from theirs at present. I will be feeding them species able to be legally collected in Queensland or AHG's and don't expect any more issues with worms etc than I had in the past ...which was none.

I know a number of people who keep Burton's..all of which feed either AHGs or skinks and none that I have spoken to have ever had an issue with diseases brought in with the food.

Some of these animals have been in their possession or known captive animals for in excess of 10 years on this diet and are still going strong.

If you maintain good husbandry practices and ensure the animal has a stress free environment why should a captive animal fed such a diet do any worse than a wild one on the same diet?

The only difference I can see between this example and an orange naped snake is that one is a pygopod and one is a snake but they are both animals adapted to live on this diet.

So how long do you have to wait to be in possession of a dead or dying snake due to feeding live food?

I will not argue that poor husbandry could result in death from parasites but that is a seperate albiet related issue. In those cases it is the conditions that IMO caused the death not the diet.

Cheers Andrew

 

[cris]

How long do you have to wait for the animal to die due to diseases and/or worms due to feeding live skinks/geckos?

The reason I ask is that years ago I kept Burton's and fed them nothing but garden skinks ( no AHG's in Brissy back then) and in the four years I had them I never had any issues.

I will hopefully be getting some more soon as a friend has some eggs cooking from theirs at present. I will be feeding them species able to be legally collected in Queensland or AHG's and don't expect any more issues with worms etc than I had in the past ...which was none.

I know a number of people who keep Burton's..all of which feed either AHGs or skinks and none that I have spoken to have ever had an issue with diseases brought in with the food.

Some of these animals have been in their possession or known captive animals for in excess of 10 years on this diet and are still going strong.

If you maintain good husbandry practices and ensure the animal has a stress free environment why should a captive animal fed such a diet do any worse than a wild one on the same diet?

The only difference I can see between this example and an orange naped snake is that one is a pygopod and one is a snake but they are both animals adapted to live on this diet.

So how long do you have to wait to be in possession of a dead or dying snake due to feeding live food?

I will not argue that poor husbandry could result in death from parasites but that is a seperate albiet related issue. In those cases it is the conditions that IMO caused the death not the diet.

Cheers Andrew

IMO its mostly hype. Although i freeze lizards before feeding them to stuff, i wouldnt be awake at night stressing an animal was going to randomly die if i needed to feed it live lizards. Actually thinking about it my lizards and turtles kept outdoors would eat all sorts of little herps that manage to get inside the enclosure, they arnt dead (yet).

 

[waruikazi]

How long do you have to wait for the animal to die due to diseases and/or worms due to feeding live skinks/geckos?

The reason I ask is that years ago I kept Burton's and fed them nothing but garden skinks ( no AHG's in Brissy back then) and in the four years I had them I never had any issues.

I will hopefully be getting some more soon as a friend has some eggs cooking from theirs at present. I will be feeding them species able to be legally collected in Queensland or AHG's and don't expect any more issues with worms etc than I had in the past ...which was none.

I know a number of people who keep Burton's..all of which feed either AHGs or skinks and none that I have spoken to have ever had an issue with diseases brought in with the food.

Some of these animals have been in their possession or known captive animals for in excess of 10 years on this diet and are still going strong.

If you maintain good husbandry practices and ensure the animal has a stress free environment why should a captive animal fed such a diet do any worse than a wild one on the same diet?

The only difference I can see between this example and an orange naped snake is that one is a pygopod and one is a snake but they are both animals adapted to live on this diet.

So how long do you have to wait to be in possession of a dead or dying snake due to feeding live food?

I will not argue that poor husbandry could result in death from parasites but that is a seperate albiet related issue. In those cases it is the conditions that IMO caused the death not the diet.

Cheers Andrew

I was gonna answer this tonight but thought i better sleep 'it' off first. I will get to it though.

 

[waruikazi]

I should have made this point in my first post, i don't think the biggest issue is that they need to be fed on skinks etc, it's more the fact that the snakes falconboy was going to buy are wild caught. I know there are always exceptions and some snakes (usually young ones) adapt very well to captivity but in my experience wild caught snakes do not do nearly as well in captivity as captive bred snakes and are prone to dropping dead.

I am of the opinion that a wild caught snake that will only feed on other lizards is not a good candidate to be sold in the pet trade, especially to someone who has had little or no experience with snakes in general. ANd i think it is unethical at best for these snakes to have even been offered for sale to someone without the relevant experience.

I am not saying wild caught animals shouldn't be released into the hobby, there are some very ethical people who sell wild caught and i would recommend them to anyone. But i also think there is far too much wild caught going to people who do not fully understand what they are paying for.

 

[butters]

I agree with the fact that a specialist feeder like an orange naped is far from a good candidate for someone without previous relevant experience. When you add in the fact that it is possibly wild caught then your prediction of a dead or very ill snake will probably become reality depending upon species, unless the person has some experienced backup they can fall back on if necessary.


My only difference of opinion was related to the feeding of other reptiles as a food source when necessary being a cause of death or disease.

I would be somewhat concerned as well as to why a species such as an orange naped would be offered to someone without relevant experience. Especially considering there are probably a list of very experienced herpers who would love to be able to keep the species if they could find one.

Cheers Andrew

 

[waruikazi]

I agree with the fact that a specialist feeder like an orange naped is far from a good candidate for someone without previous relevant experience. When you add in the fact that it is possibly wild caught then your prediction of a dead or very ill snake will probably become reality depending upon species, unless the person has some experienced backup they can fall back on if necessary.


My only difference of opinion was related to the feeding of other reptiles as a food source when necessary being a cause of death or disease.

I would be somewhat concerned as well as to why a species such as an orange naped would be offered to someone without relevant experience. Especially considering there are probably a list of very experienced herpers who would love to be able to keep the species if they could find one.

Cheers Andrew

The snake/s in question are 100% wild caught. I know where they are coming from and although not surprised i am disappointed in the suppliers actions. I think it is showing scant disrespect for the animals welfare.

 

[RainbowReptiles]

Once again you shoot your mouth of without knowing all the facts Gordon.

Falconboy contacted us long ago with a request for a specific species. It is reasonable to assume that he was familiar with the species.

Recently that species became available and Falconboy was so informed. He was also informed that it is a wild caught snake and all the possible consequences of that as well as that it's his responsibility to ensure that he is properly licensed and able to care for that species. Under the circumstances now revealed he would not have been able to get an import permit, is not licensed for that species, and consequently cannot get the snake.