Positive and Negative Feedback

[Hickson]

There have been some discussions over the last few weeks with many members, and this post is to clarify APS Administration's position on both Positive and Negative Feedback in regards to people selling things.

Positive Feedback

If you have something positive to say about a seller, we have a Positive Feedback Forum at http://www.aussiepythons.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=46 where you can leave your comments.

And if you are buying from someone you haven't dealt with before, you can see what other people have said about dealing with that seller.

But please be aware that a seller's absence from the list doesn't mean they are bad or dodgy, just that no-one has bothered to say anything about them.

Which leads to -

Negative Feedback

It has long been suggested that we have a negative feedback forum, so people can 'warn' newcomers about dodgy sellers. APS has resisted this, I can state quite categorically that APS will NOT have a negative feedback forum for the following reasons:

Legal reasons - negative comments about a seller could be libelous, slanderous or defamatory. Such posts could damage someones reputation or business, and that could give them a legal case against APS.

For this reason, there will be no more negative threads about bad petshops. If you think a petshop is bad, report them to the authorities to investigate.

Personal Vendettas - we all know that various members on this site don't get along. How would you feel if someone posted some negative feedback about you as a seller? It might be a complete lie, but mud sticks and you would have to fight to prove it was a lie. Of course, it doesn't even have to be someone who doesn't like you - I can think of a couple of banned members who would lie about you just because they thought it was funny. I know that would bug the freddy out of me if I was targeted like that.

Honest Mistakes and Inexperience - we had an incident about three years ago. A relative newbie posted that her hatchy had died. She had contacted the seller to demand her money back, but he refused. She was convinced it was sick when he sold it to her, so was getting it autopsied at the vets as proof.

Sympathetic members rallied around her, jumping on the bandwagon, with posts like "he should give you your money back, or another snake". From memory, the seller was named and promptly branded unscrupulous and untrustworthy, as well as many other names. After three pages of posts, someone asked "why did you wait until the snake died before approaching the seller - why did you not contact him when you couldn't get it to feed?"

"Because it's only been the last three weeks it wouldn't feed"

Further questioning revealed that the snake had several feeds in her care - she'd owned it a couple of months. Yet it died and she thought she deserved a replacement. The autopsy found it had died from a gut impaction.

So a seller was unfairly blamed for something completely beyond his control, had his name blackened, all due to a misunderstanding resulting from incompetence by a newbie.

And many sellers will tell you that this is not a rare thing.

That's why APS doesn't have a Negative Feedback forum.

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

what about asking about a seller? For example "Hi I am interested in buying a ___________ from this person, has anyone here bought from them before?" or is that a no-no?

There's a couple of times i wish i had known about certain sellers before being stuck in the SS Ripped Off boat. It's unfortunate that you can't learn about the bad sellers, but its more unfortunate that there are bad sellers to begin with If only there was a way to set up a system like ebay's feedback...

 

[falconboy]

If there is no negative feedback on sellers, why on earth even bother with a positive feedback section? A positive feedback section only works if there is a negative area.

There is a certain sponsor on here that is hopeless - a lot of us know who it is, but many don't. There have been many, many threads from desperate buyers trying to get their product from this person. Admin deletes every one of them but keeps this sponsor on who is CLEARLY not doing the right thing. Its not a once off, the bad feedback was not undeserving, thats now blatantly obvious to everyone but blind freddy, but admin keeps allowing unsuspecting buyers (your members) to keep getting done over by this person. Knowing about it, and allowing this person to keep trading without protecting members, could be considered as bad as this persons own conduct!

I understand the forums position in relation to libelous, slanderous or defamatory remarks, but there NEEDS to be a way to protect people from the unscrupulous like this sponsor. Your members deserve better.

 

[FAY]

If there is no negative feedback on sellers, why on earth even bother with a positive feedback section? A positive feedback section only works if there is a negative area.

It is more a case of not bagging out a shonky person...more of just not recommending them.
And no nastiness is involved.

 

[DiamondAsh]

After reading the above posts I think it would be in the best interests of the Admins to act on bad feedback posted in regards to a site sponser. Although I agree negative feedback should not be posted for legal reasons, it does need to be emailed or Pm'ed to Admin to be seriously looked into. Afterall, they are taking money and helping promote said business. This is in a way endorsing said business.

I personally wouldn't have a positive feedback forum available for the business operating to eliminate the problem. If the forum was a to operate properly without bias it should only be for the smaller (excess) sellers and hobbyists as stated in the For Sale section title.



In regards to the private sales that occur, then it should simply be buyer beware. This is no different to puchasing from Ebay of the Trading Post.

 

[Chimera]

but there NEEDS to be a way to protect people from the unscrupulous like this sponsor. Your members deserve better.

It's called buyer beware. The simple fact that a company sponsors an Internet forum should not be an indication of them being good to deal with. They are simply another organisation operating over the Internet.

Granted there have been people who have been burnt recently however I don't see it as the sites responsibility to hold anyones hand while they shop over the Internet. I'm glad to see Hix post the sites stance on this as it will hopefully quell the flood of irrational and ill thought out requests for an online vendor lynch-fest.

The conduct of some members in general forums when there has been sale disputes has on occasions been absolutely deplorable. So how can anyone feel that a negative feedback section is a manageable option???

PS: This is post is not directed at any one person, just general observations.

 

[croc_hunter_penny]

If there was a negative feedback forum, perhaps all posts should be screened automatically and only be allowed if they are sincere, and straight to the point without namecalling.
For example "i bought a ______ from this person and it arrived in poor condition/was underfed or unhealthy/not the animal i thought i was getting, and he won't reply to email after 3 weeks"
or "i bought a product from this person and it arrived broken, she will not refund my money or replace product"
or "I bought some products from this person but they took my money and i haven't seen my order in six weeks, will not reply to my emails"

Short and to the point. Maybe also give the seller an opportunity to respond (not on an alias account)

Obviously up to the discretion of the moderators, who can edit illiterate or life-story posts to get to the point.

-Penny

 

[snakes4me2]

would it be worth just having an "overall satisfaction with the seller question" and have like a poll option of excellent, very good, good, not so good. or something like that. Have it so no comments can be made then its just based on you experience with that seller without details and the oportunity to bad them right out???

 

[Miss B]

^ that's not a bad idea.

 

[Hickson]

Buyer Beware - Caveat Emptor.

I meant to put that in the first post and forgot all about it, thanks for reminding me Chimera.

For people talking about a particular seller, if you check the Positive feedback section, that person has some excellent feedback, with some posts quite recent. So obviously some people are happy with the service. (I am just pointing out a fact, not wanting to start a discussion).

As far as APS appearing to endorse businesses if we take their money - if you buy a bad car through the Trading Post or your local classifieds - do you then complain to the Trading Post or the Classified where you saw the advert? If you did, they would say the same thing - Buyer Beware. The same goes for buying Corn Snakes from the Cameroon.



HIx

 

[Australis]

I can think of a couple of banned members who would lie about you just because they thought it was funny. I know that would bug the freddy out of me if I was targeted like that..

Good point Hix LOL

 

[Hickson]

Yeah, I thought some people would like that!



Hix

 

[DiamondAsh]

As far as APS appearing to endorse businesses if we take their money - if you buy a bad car through the Trading Post or your local classifieds - do you then complain to the Trading Post or the Classified where you saw the advert? If you did, they would say the same thing - Buyer Beware. The same goes for buying Corn Snakes from the Cameroon.

Hmm. Point taken. I just see it as a negative to APS's crediability to allow a sponsor to continue using the site as advertising while possibly doing the wrong thing. But that's just my take on this whole issue as it's been bubbling away for months now.


Having said this and my previous post, I do not take umbrage to any sponsor on APS, this is just random thoughts running through my mind.


Al.

 

[PhilK]

"I can think of a couple of banned members who would lie about you just because they thought it was funny. I know that would bug the freddy out of me if I was targeted like that."

Hahahaha awesome

 

[♣♣♣♣♣♣]

im just going to jump in and say it. i know of a couple of members who have been left with great responses on the feedback page.... however, alot has been left unsaid in the hopes that they would perhaps right their wrongs? because of the positive feedback, people are continuing to buy from these 2 people, totally unaware that a certain person, or for all i know, persons, have been ripped off and scammed. this continues to happen because people dont want to wrongfully blacken a persons name... but perhaps thats exactly what they deserve. theres no excuse for someone straightout refusing to pay for something they have bought. if they actually couldnt pay it, for financial or other reasons, that would be ok, but when they continuously post about some expensive new pet theyve just bought, i think they can easily afford to pay for what they already own.
end rant......... or is it the start......

 

[RevDaniel]

I agree with the pont Hix made. Although i got ripped off and still not been refunded my $970. Will have to extremely careful who i pay in advance for the reptiles now.

 

[FAY]

"I can think of a couple of banned members who would lie about you just because they thought it was funny. I know that would bug the freddy out of me if I was targeted like that."

Nice play with words there Hixy!

 

[wokka]

I dont think APS can walk away from the fact that they endorse a bussiness by allowing it to have a permanent banner on site.I expect APS to do some investigation into "bannerfliers" before allowing them to hoist the flag and that APS should investigate members complaints sent to administration. I agree that APS should not take responsibility for casual advertisers in the "For Sale" section.

 

[Chimera]

I don't think APS would be able to maintain any of its sponsors if it started dropping them because of sale disputes. I think everyone here is referring to one sponsor and there are those who I don't believe actually delt with that sponsor. The simple fact of Internet shopping is that there is a risk, if you deem this unacceptable then don't shop over the net.

I think this current time will be remembered as the time of blame, everyone is too proud to accept responsibility for their own mistakes and look to blame others. If you have been ripped off by someone, deal with them. Don't blame a third party that the seller was advertising on for your misfortune.

APS has site sponsors, it doesn't endorse businesses.

 

[spilota_variegata]

How about APS only allowing registered businesses to be sponsors? That way if someone is ripped off by a sponsor, they can contact the appropriate authorities to seek compensation. Some people take the "hobby" stance a little too far with regard to business. Let's face it, why should most of us pay taxes on our hard earned money whilst others avoid taxes by not registering their businesses. Do you really believe someone who doesn't register a business is declaring all income to the taxation office? Could APS be seen as promoting illegal activities by allowing such people to conduct such activities? Maybe an ABN should be clearly displayed with every sponsor's banner.

I could be right off the mark here.. I'm just thinking out loud.