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I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on that one. It's like saying that the insulation in the roof of your house is great for winter... but should be totally removed in summer. I know my breed well and I can assure you that clipping Sibes in summer is not the kindest thing for them. It actually makes it harder for them to regulate their body temperature.

Here is a bit of reading for you.

SHAVING NORTHERN DOGS by Gary Winn Kelly

Though northern dogs are renowned for their lovely fur coats, even the most ardent fan of the arctic breeds sometimes dreams of a dog that would just shed a little less, or not require quite so much grooming. When the spring shed comes, it can take time and patience to keep up with the task of grooming these dogs, especially when the dog may not always choose to cooperate.

When people come to us at CCNDR and ask how often these northern dogs shed, I often answer them, For "6 months in the spring, and 6 months in the fall." While shedding varies from dog to dog, there are many northern dogs that surely seem as though they never stop shedding.

Some groomers and some veterinarians suggest that it is okay to clip or shave the coat back during the summer months, or even all year round. This article is written to refute such claims, and inform the owners of these breeds as to the reasons why. I have met people who claim that their dog is happier shaved, and that their vet told them it is healthier, too, as the dog will not get so hot. This is perhaps a misunderstanding, or a generalization from some other breed that is not an arctic breed.

The northern breeds have a double coat. This double coat consists of an undercoat, that is soft and short. The outer coat is made up of longer guard hair. This outer coat has a sleek sheen, when healthy, and water dropped on this coat will most often run off, never penetrating to the undercoat.

The coat combination offers excellent thermal protection for the dog from extremes of cold *and heat*. Northern dogs, like desert peoples, are better off fully dressed than nude. Shaving away the outer coat exposes the undercoat, which cannot adequately protect the skin from the ultraviolet radiation of the sun. This can lead to severe sunburn. I have seen this in at least one dog, and it took months for the dog to recover.

People have told me that this is not a problem for their dog, as it is not outdoors very often, as it stays indoors, or is in the shade out of doors. I suspect that such owners are often unaware of just how long the dog is in sunlight, or that ultraviolet radiation can be present on cloudy days, too, and still damage the skin of the dog. A dog's skin has no natural tanning capability to protect it from the sun. The remaining undercoat may just be thick enough to protect the owner from knowing that they have just put their dog's health at risk.
This is only one of the four reasons one should not shave down a northern dog. A second reason is even more evident when one understands the evolution of the guard hair that protects the inner coat.

The guard hair is well named, as it guards the undercoat. The guard hair is thicker, longer and often more co****. It lies along the top of the coat and because it does lie flat, it forms a layer of hair over the undercoat. Dirt, waste products, leaves, food and other debris generally slide right off this outer coat. If the coat gets muddy, one can often just wait until the mud dries and then brush the dog. The result is most often a clean coat. It is almost as though the outer coat has a nonstick finish like good cookware. We sometimes say that it was northern dogs who first invented teflon.

When this outer coat is shaved away, there is no protection for the undercoat. Worse, the undercoat is often damaged by being shaved, too. The result is that the remaining undercoat is like a magnet, attracting leaves, grass clippings, dirt, small sticks, bugs and other detritus. If the shaved dog goes outside for even a short time, it can come back into the house with an entire load of organic and other materials from the outdoors.

I had one dog at the end of 2003, that had such a severely shaved coat that as of 2005, it has not fully recovered from the damage that shaving did. The dog still lacks a full outer coat of guard hair, and the dog requires grooming *each* time it goes outside before it can come back indoors. At first, the grooming took 30-45 minutes each time this happened. That has decreased, but still the dog lacks the full protection of the outer guard hair.

That outer coat stands guard against all the loose organic material and all the dirt that can get into a dog's coat. It helps to protect the dog from allergies, that can be triggered by having the organic materials of the outdoors come into contact directly with the skin. It can also reduce the need for bathing, which if done too often, can trigger major skin problems that are expensive and difficult to resolve.

The oils of the skin are important to both the skin and the coat. Those oils coat the hair of the coat and afford protection from moisture and damaging materials in the environment. The oils coat the hair and provide the hair with the ability to shed water like the feathers on a duck. It keeps water outside of the coat and away from the skin. This helps to warm the dog in damp weather. Mud and other organic materials also are repelled as much by the oiled fur as by the guard hair itself. This keeps the inner coat clean, dry and free of potential infection, or the danger of forming a nesting place for insects. This is the third reason to ensure the integrity of a northern dog's coat.

The oil protects the skin and keeps the skin healthy. The skin needs the oil to stay moist and pliable. Dry skin can result in itch problems, scratching and dandruff. This may then require medicated baths, special lotions, or additional medicines to restore the proper skin oil balance.

The dog has a coat for excellent reasons. We wear clothes for good reasons, too. Even in cultures and at times when people could make the choice to be nude, they often found it wise to wear clothing -- not for modesty, but for protection to the skin. Exposed skin is easily scratched, torn, or subject to abrasion from trees, rocks, or other surfaces. The dog has a coat to protect it from abrasion, scratches, splinters, or being torn on sharp objects. This is the fourth reason to help your dog maintain a healthy coat -- mechanical protection.

The entire composition of the coat, from undercoat, guard hair and skin-oil balance is a specialized system that has evolved over tens of thousands of years. Man can only harm it by interfering with what naturally evolved to protect the dog. One of the most insidious threats to the dog's health is from bacterial infections. If the coat is compromised by shaving or trimming, it can result in moisture and organic material being built up on the skin. This combination can harbor bacteria and result in severe skin problems that can threaten the dog's survival. Dogs scratch when they itch and that scratching can often result in damage to the skin, bleeding and the possibility of worsening an infection. An expensive course of antibiotics may be required to stop the infection.

We attempt to educate as many groomers and adopting families, as well as other dog owners, to *NEVER* shave the coat of a northern breed dog. It is gambling with the health of the dog for a minor convenience of an owner.
 
for the people who have staffys: arent they just really great dogs to have? i also love labradors, my dog has a girlfriend which is a lab :D
they are so cute together

M
 
Back then.....

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And now.....

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These are our babies
first one is Sprinkles
then Abbey,then deisel and last is Banjo
 

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I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on that one. It's like saying that the insulation in the roof of your house is great for winter... but should be totally removed in summer. I know my breed well and I can assure you that clipping Sibes in summer is not the kindest thing for them. It actually makes it harder for them to regulate their body temperature.

Here is a bit of reading for you.

Ever heard that story where the people scaling antarctica didn't need their sleigh dogs anymore so they sent them back to australia and they died within a week because they could'nt cope with the heat? If they had shaved them off with a 7# and kept them in a cool place they probably would'nt have died.

I have dealt with more siberian huskies than you probably have eaten dinner. I have five siberian huskies whom of which i clip off during summer and their owners would not have it any other way.

That's rubbish about gambling with their health, they have the same heating and cooling methods as other dogs besides the fact that they have double coats, they pant to cool down as that is their air conditioning system and they develop a thick undercoat during the colder times to cope with that but in australia they arn't towing sleighs and like i have said multiple times now it gets alot hotter here than it does in siberia and they were not bred to cope with australias weather conditions.

If you clip your huskies off on a warmer day their blood will remain as hot as the next dogs, and because your dog is from siberia if you clipped it off and it was a twelve degree day i assure you it would'nt freeze :p and the insulation in my roof doesn't live or breath.

Yep, agree to disagree, i just hope for your dogs sake that they are kept inside and that they get groomed regularly.
 
Go on, keep talking... you are just digging yourself deeper and deeper.

You clearly know nothing about Northern breeds. I don't care how many Huskies you have clipped - that doesn't make it right. Here is some more reading material for you. You clearly need it.

Northern Breed Dogs in the Heat
 
Go on, keep talking... you are just digging yourself deeper and deeper.

You clearly know nothing about Northern breeds. I don't care how many Huskies you have clipped - that doesn't make it right. Here is some more reading material for you. You clearly need it.

Northern Breed Dogs in the Heat

Yeah and the same goes for you just because you are defensive because i said it was the kindest thing you can do for your dog in summer.

Again just hope they are INDOOR dogs.

But you haven't yet said anything about the fact that these dogs were not bred for australian weather conditions? Would you disagree with me on that? Because quite clearly it's true.
 
Yeah and the same goes for you just because you are defensive because i said it was the kindest thing you can do for your dog in summer.

Again just hope they are INDOOR dogs.

But you haven't yet said anything about the fact that these dogs were not bred for australian weather conditions? Would you disagree with me on that? Because quite clearly it's true.

No my dogs are not indoor dogs :) And they cope just fine in the heat, thank you very much. I'm sure if you owned Sibes and lived in a warm climate you too would soon realise just how well they handle warm weather.

As for what they were 'bred for' - so? Just because they weren't originally bred in/for Australia does not mean they can't handle heat. In fact it's got absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about.
 
No my dogs are not indoor dogs :) And they cope just fine in the heat, thank you very much. I'm sure if you owned Sibes and lived in a warm climate you too would soon realise just how well they handle warm weather.

As for what they were 'bred for' - so? Just because they weren't originally bred in/for Australia does not mean they can't handle heat. In fact it's got absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about.


Yeah you are right the fact that the breed you own was not bred for this kind of weather has absoloutly nothing to do with the fact that they cope better being clipped off in summer.

What was i thinking?

Suprise, they are outside dogs, no wonder you took offense.

And just because your dogs haven't died from heat stroke it doesn't mean they cope fine.
 
haha you two lol.

you both have good arguments here...

this is the only time I have ever clipped my sibes, and to the reason of having a bad tick infestation up here all year round. I just got my house and yard done so I needed drastic messures for my 3 sibes. they do, actually do very well in the heat up here though and they have way's of destroying your gardens to keep cool, by digging in one spot to make a hole big enough for them to fit there body in it. all mine are outside dogs by the way, and there are ways to over come the heat with plents of shade and a pond and heeps of water buckets and hosing them.

they are double coated but I do feel it is just a tad too hot up here for them to handle it. the tempreture up in Darwin is rediculous all year round, never gets cold here its a constant 35 + and lately its been 40degrees + humidity. if you've never lived here then you will never understand how hot and unbarable it is for both people and animals. I've lived in brisbane and at least you get winter and a brake of having to use the aircon, I need it on all year round. and you guys get cooler night and wind, we don't get wind and the nights are just as bad as the days. thats just so you know that comparing brisbane temp with darwin temp is just rediculous.

alot of people however do keep the northern dogs up here and yes I do understand where your coming with not having a husky shaved if you are showing them. no show animal is shaved as I know of up here but my animals arn't for show there just pets, I getting them shaved was the best dissition I could make at the time and it really helped with the ticks.

getting them shaved in summer I would only agree on doing if they where having a horrorable time trying to shed there coat. and to help them I would carefully consider getting it groomed and maybe shaved to give them the hand. but yeah first time and only for the tick reason.

thats my two sence

cheers
 
My 3 Pugs Astro, Bubbles and Roxy

Astro is 2
bubbles is 3months and Roxy is 3
 

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haha you two lol.

you both have good arguments here...

cheers

I am not saying that they MUST be clipped by any means, but it is the kindest thing you can do for your dog in hot weather and yes they dig big holes to lay in because underground the temperature drops by about fifteen degrees, alot of animals use this method. Basically your dog is saying mumma i'm hot.

Alot of them vomit violently and suffer from heat stroke when outside (even in shade) and for that reason i have clipped off four of my customers huskies, and clipping them seems to solve the problem.

They don't 'drop' their undercoat once a year like alot of breeders say they do. They shed all year round due to the different weather conditions here in australia, the coat has to be manually removed with a BIG BIG dryer (or combed every day but that still won't remove it all)
although both you and miss b's huskies look very well maintained and all carry reasonably small coats.

alls i'm saying is miss b you would be very suprised at the difference in temperament after you clip off a husky (or any dog) in hot weather, they are a much happier dog and i assure you they do not suffer from any health issues unless ofcourse they are put out in the sun or constantly wet but that stands for any dog breed.

Truce? lol
 
Suprise, they are outside dogs, no wonder you took offense.

Why would I take offence at that? My dogs want for nothing :) Our oldest Sibe has recently turned 8 years of age... he has been an outdoor dog his entire life and (shock horror!) he has survived eight stinking hot Brissie summers. He must have missed the memo about dying of heat stroke. My dogs have loads of undercover shade, their own wading pool, and fresh water available to them at all times. In fact they cope better in the Brisbane heat than my two Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

snakeman112 said:
Also Miss b and captainpantspie will you mind stop argueing so this thread does not get closed like so many do?.

It's not an argument - it's a discussion :) I am just a little bit tired of the misguided belief that Sibes benefit from being shaved off in summer. Do you know how many times people have seen me walking my dogs and asked, "Oh - you must clip them in Summer, huh?".

captainpantspie said:
Alot of them vomit violently and suffer from heat stroke when outside (even in shade) and for that reason i have clipped off four of my customers huskies, and clipping them seems to solve the problem.

I don't suppose you have any statistics to back that up? I am a vet nurse and I can't say I've ever heard of that happening actually. In fact the vets I work with recommend to clients with Northern breeds that they do not clip their dogs off in the summer.

captainpantspie said:
They don't 'drop' their undercoat once a year like alot of breeders say they do. They shed all year round due to the different weather conditions here in australia, the coat has to be manually removed with a BIG BIG dryer (or combed every day but that still won't remove it all)

Yes, they do shed year-round. BUT like the breeders say, they do also have a major coat blow once or twice per year. It is very different to regular 'shedding' - their undercoat comes out in clumps. Kataan (the 8-year-old boy) has recently been through his end-of-Winter coat blow - this is what it looks like. When he is blowing coat, I can fill half a dozen shopping bags full of hair every day and he still loses it in clumps.

_MG_1162.jpg


captainpantspie said:
although both you and miss b's huskies look very well maintained and all carry reasonably small coats.

Sibes are a very low-maintainence breed, contrary to popular belief. My youngest bitch is my show dog, she gets a hydrobath and a blowdry once per week to keep her coat in good condition for the ring. My older bitch gets a hydrobath and blow-dry about once per month. This is what my young bitch looks like two weeks after a hydrobath. And this is despite her love of digging holes in the dirt and splashing around in the wading pool. The dirt simply falls right off. Oh and my bitch does not have a 'small coat'. Her coat is correct according to the breed standard.

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Another thing too, is that a nice coat comes from within. A good diet can make a huge difference in the condition of a dogs' coat.

Anyhow I'm not trying to start a huge argument here, but the Sibe is a breed I am quite passionate about (in case you couldn't tell :rolleyes::lol:) and it irks me to see people spreading myths about them. The simple fact is, they do not benefit at all from being clipped back in summer.
 
Miss B, are you planning on breeding your Siberian's in future? if so put me down for a pup!!
 
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