Turtles in tropical aquarium ?

[Australis]

Step one: get rid of the exotic fish
Step two: replace with stunning native freshwater fish.
Step three: add turtle

Most native fish are tolerant of just about any water quality, pretty amazing fish.
You could even match the locality of the turtle with fish from the same locale.
its a beautiful thing.


I also agree with Cris's short neck turtle comments.

 

[gillsy]

depends if you like boring natives

 

[aterese]

Thanks folks....narrowing down the list

Are Oscars, Gourami and Angels out of the picture ?

I had ruled out Discus from comments they'll eat the other fish, also stuck with Dwarf Gourami as more compatible....but this might be wrong assumption.

Sorry Australis but I am so bored with native fish, goldfish and bettas.

 

[gillsy]

Thanks folks....narrowing down the list

Are Oscars, Gourami and Angels out of the picture ?

I had ruled out Discus from comments they'll eat the other fish, also stuck with Dwarf Gourami as more compatible....but this might be wrong assumption.

Sorry Australis but I am so bored with native fish, goldfish and bettas.

Angles and discus are similar, oscars while small but will quickly grow and will eat anything that fits in their mouth but aggression wise their fine.

Gourami's are fine, sometimes the blue/gold's a little aggressive pearls are fine.

I think angels can be more aggressive than oscars and discus.

 

[largeheaded1]

yea setting up turtle tanks the best thing i have learnt is they do best with natives...i have one tank with some grunters and a jack and its beautiufl!

 

[freerider]

Step one: get rid of the exotic fish
Step two: replace with stunning native freshwater fish.
Step three: add turtle

Most native fish are tolerant of just about any water quality, pretty amazing fish.
You could even match the locality of the turtle with fish from the same locale.
its a beautiful thing.


I also agree with Cris's short neck turtle comments.

I agree, full native river sytem in a tank looks incredible.
My big,big aquarium built into the wall will only contain natives/turtles

 

[cris]

Go for some boring native species, Archers, scats, batfish, gobies, gudgeons eg. sleepy cod or purple spotted if you want something that wont get too big. You could also get away with juveniles other larger species such as bara, saratoga, bream and possibly some banded grunters(they can be a bit nasty though).

Comparing native fish with those available normally in the aquarium trade i cant see how anyone could call them boring... this site is full of incorrect opinions though so its OK

 

[aterese]

They are boring because 1/ I've had goldfish and bettas around most of my life and 2/ I have plenty of native fish in my backyard (back onto a canal)....and they are for food.

I wonder what response that will get....yes I am a fish lover but I also hunt the ones I wanna eat. Seeing a barra grow big enough for a table plate might tempt me too much

 

[cris]

They are boring because 1/ I've had goldfish and bettas around most of my life and 2/ I have plenty of native fish in my backyard (back onto a canal)....and they are for food.

I wonder what response that will get....yes I am a fish lover but I also hunt the ones I wanna eat. Seeing a barra grow big enough for a table plate might tempt me too much

Yes they are good food, like most animals they taste good, but they also are interesting to keep. How many species do you have out back? Also you already had some natives in your list anyway...

Apart from what others have said, i would also be cautious with the spiny eel as i think it may be more likely to get eaten, but im only guessing and havnt ever kept them with turtles. The sleepy cod will eat small fish, but the others should be fine. Scats do eat plants but i dont think they would match the destruction the turtle would cause.

 

[gillsy]

I doubt that, I have scene scats destroy a tank in 24 hours.

 

[aterese]

Combatibility of tropical fish

I have to say I'm still getting very confused after the weekend.

Setup the new 5ft and surprised my partner, then took him to the aquarium stores so he can get an idea of fish to choose on his birthday (well start introducing some each week).

He then wanted to go Marine....yikes....I had everything picked out for tropical....finally the stores convinced him about the maintenance, costs of extra equipment etc. He only wanted this because the fish look brighter and more stunning!

So now we have the tank cycling and I did cheat and use the cycle starting chemical to introduce the bacteria. The pH from the tap was over 7, so I've tried to bring that down and still up at 7, so gave another dose today. Otherwise I need to get a proper kit to test all the other levels.

I was told at the stores (as we choose normal small gravel) that if we want the African Cichlids or Discus then we are best adding limestone or coral to bring up the pH for them and not get stuck with the aquarium only suited to them (ie. calc. carb in the gravel).

I need to be educated as to whether other tropical fish like loach, catfish, gourami...can live at the higher pH the cichlids need ? The water I have currently at 27deg.

Here is the latest revised list after the partner expressed his desires. He very much wants Discus, Angels and at least Gourami. He prefers the bright fish and was very disappointed being told he can't mix Cichlids (with the others due to aggression).

I am real confused as some people tell me the mix Electric Yellows with loach and catfish, then others mix a Oscar with other fish. I'm not concerned about size of small fish, plenty of hiding places and if they get eaten (guppies, tetras) well it won't bother us or will even keep the breeding population down

The stores also tell us on one hand the American Cichlids are most aggressive and in some forums I get told the opposite and stay away from Africans. Then we get told NO to angels unless they are just with tetras. And catfish will eat everything. It all contradicts what I am told by different sources.

We really need HELP on understanding the least aggressive subspecies of the African Cichlids and Gourami. Even understanding which sharks to stick with etc.

Here is the latest list:

We intend getting all these as juveniles, getting smaller breeds first to establish themselves.

If anyone can point out what order I should add the fish that would be very helpful.

 

[gillsy]

So now we have the tank cycling and I did cheat and use the cycle starting chemical to introduce the bacteria. The pH from the tap was over 7, so I've tried to bring that down and still up at 7, so gave another dose today. Otherwise I need to get a proper kit to test all the other levels. That’s not cheating, it’s actually very good, especially if you get the one you need to keep in the fridge. The BIO liquid kept in red square bottles I swear by.

I was told at the stores (as we choose normal small gravel) that if we want the African Cichlids or Discus then we are best adding limestone or coral to bring up the pH for them and not get stuck with the aquarium only suited to them (ie. calc. carb in the gravel). ***, that’s true for Africans not Discus. They need soft acidic water, and I hate discus because they’ve been in captivity so long if they can’t adjust yet screw them. I’ve kept discus twice, never treated the water any different than I would goldfish. The babies seemed to thrive but if you do it to adults they don’t’ do so well…. DISCUS ARE BORING!!!!

I need to be educated as to whether other tropical fish like loach, catfish, gourami...can live at the higher pH the cichlids need ? The water I have currently at 27deg. They will all live happily together.

Here is the latest revised list after the partner expressed his desires. He very much wants Discus, Angels and at least Gourami. He prefers the bright fish and was very disappointed being told he can't mix Cichlids (with the others due to aggression). Keep them all together, most will live happily just like snakes there will be some aggressors in each species that are not the common ‘personalities’

I am real confused as some people tell me the mix Electric Yellows with loach and catfish, then others mix a Oscar with other fish. I'm not concerned about size of small fish, plenty of hiding places and if they get eaten (guppies, tetras) well it won't bother us or will even keep the breeding population down Electric yellows are majority of the time less aggressive than other Africans but I wouldn’t be keeping them with discus totally different habitants. Guppies will get eaten by everything, but breed quite easily so you should have a constant supply of live food J.

The stores also tell us on one hand the American Cichlids are most aggressive and in some forums I get told the opposite and stay away from Africans. Then we get told NO to angels unless they are just with tetras. And catfish will eat everything. It all contradicts what I am told by different sources. Both have their most aggressive, it comes down to different species. Angels again most will happily with all fish, unless breeding but they will eat smaller fish. Catfish will eat anything that fits in their mouth, so it comes down to what species you want. They are one of the largest fish groups so they range from cm’s up to the largest fresh water fish known. So please provide what species of catfish you want. Huge school of cory’s look great. Pictus cats, upside down cats are all good.


We really need HELP on understanding the least aggressive subspecies of the African Cichlids and Gourami. Even understanding which sharks to stick with etc. African’s you really need to drop as they really wont go into a community tank, some of the riverine Africans will be ok but are hard to find sometimes. Don’t get Jewels or convicts what ever you do. Get some long fin Ram Dwarf cichlids.

Here is what I see in yours.

Gourami’s are fine
Catfish fine (gold sucking is not a catfish) – however they are all algae eaters, you wont have enough to get all stick with Bristlenose and Pleco’s. The gold sucking can sometimes suck on fish and consume scales and flesh.
Americans – no way all but the rams will destroy everyting in your tank
Guppies fine,
Loach – Kuhli you’ll never see, I wouldn’t bother, Clowns have 5+ you’ll be fine.
Ghost – ok but I wouldn’t
Silver Dollar’s/Scats – you can but they are flightly and will eat your plants
Spiny eel you’ll never see and commonly escape from the tank.
Cod – no eat everything
Silver Sharks grow to big,
All the rest are ok.

 

[Horsy]

You will see Kuhli Loaches if you have them in a big enough school. I have 25 (mix of striped and black) and they are always swimming around, playing and whatnot. Believe it or not, the more hides you have, the more you'll see them. That goes for all loaches

 

[largeheaded1]

So now we have the tank cycling and I did cheat and use the cycle starting chemical to introduce the bacteria. The pH from the tap was over 7, so I've tried to bring that down and still up at 7, so gave another dose today. Otherwise I need to get a proper kit to test all the other levels. That’s not cheating, it’s actually very good, especially if you get the one you need to keep in the fridge. The BIO liquid kept in red square bottles I swear by.
Its called Geo Liquid - very good prodcut!




Here is what I see in yours.

Gourami’s are fine
Catfish fine (gold sucking is not a catfish) – however they are all algae eaters, you wont have enough to get all stick with Bristlenose and Pleco’s. The gold sucking can sometimes suck on fish and consume scales and flesh.
The problem with plecos and turtles are that the plecos seem to have the big fins which the turtles love! I have lost many plecos to turtles, i find the bristlenoses are fine with them.
Americans – no way all but the rams will destroy everyting in your tank
Not true, I have kept americans for many years, raning from Rams to the big 'aggressive' ones, they do not destroy the tank
Loach – Kuhli you’ll never see, I wouldn’t bother, Clowns have 5+ you’ll be fine.
I have 4 clowns with my turtles and they are fine.
Silver Dollar’s/Scats – you can but they are flightly and will eat your plants
I find these guys very good with turtles as they are qucik and very hard for the turtle to catch
All the rest are ok.

 

[gillsy]

Gourami’s are fine
Catfish fine (gold sucking is not a catfish) – however they are all algae eaters, you wont have enough to get all stick with Bristlenose and Pleco’s. The gold sucking can sometimes suck on fish and consume scales and flesh.
The problem with plecos and turtles are that the plecos seem to have the big fins which the turtles love! I have lost many plecos to turtles, i find the bristlenoses are fine with them.
Cool sounds good.



Americans – no way all but the rams will destroy everyting in your tank
Not true, I have kept americans for many years, raning from Rams to the big 'aggressive' ones, they do not destroy the tank
Destroy you tank, by aggression to other tank members not necessarily the physical tank. In a community tank I wouldn’t keep the aggressive cichlids. I’m not saying they wouldn’t work, as I’ve done many things that ‘aren’t supposed to work’. But for a newby trying to get a good mix I would avoid them.



Loach – Kuhli you’ll never see, I wouldn’t bother, Clowns have 5+ you’ll be fine.
I have 4 clowns with my turtles and they are fine.
1 will work fine, but doesn’t necessarily make it good. I like clowns in large schools, they look better and are fun to watch.


Silver Dollar’s/Scats – you can but they are flightly and will eat your plants
I find these guys very good with turtles as they are qucik and very hard for the turtle to catch
Yeah, true. Depends if you want plants or not. Personal preference. I’ve always found silver dollars flighty and I personally think they’re not attractive. The red hook dollards, (I can’t think of they’re exact name but I think it’s red hook m (something) I like. More colour and not as flightly.


All the rest are ok.

 

[largeheaded1]

Americans – no way all but the rams will destroy everyting in your tank
Not true, I have kept americans for many years, raning from Rams to the big 'aggressive' ones, they do not destroy the tank
Destroy you tank, by aggression to other tank members not necessarily the physical tank. In a community tank I wouldn’t keep the aggressive cichlids. I’m not saying they wouldn’t work, as I’ve done many things that ‘aren’t supposed to work’. But for a newby trying to get a good mix I would avoid them.
Ohhh ok yea there are some aggressive ones out there. At the same time there are ALOT of peaceful ones, I have never had a problem except for 2 brasiliensis....besides that Jack Dempseys and stuff are fine. You want one that can hold its own more so as there will be turtles in the tank. There are different types of aggression though, they are more of a territorial fish which triggers the aggression, jus make sure you have plenty of hidey holes and logs/caves for them.

Loach – Kuhli you’ll never see, I wouldn’t bother, Clowns have 5+ you’ll be fine.
I have 4 clowns with my turtles and they are fine.
1 will work fine, but doesn’t necessarily make it good. I like clowns in large schools, they look better and are fun to watch.
Yea thats true, a group of 5 plus would look awesome but these guys grow to be over 1 foot which if you had 5 or 6 could be quite cramped.


Silver Dollar’s/Scats – you can but they are flightly and will eat your plants
I find these guys very good with turtles as they are qucik and very hard for the turtle to catch
Yeah, true. Depends if you want plants or not. Personal preference. I’ve always found silver dollars flighty and I personally think they’re not attractive. The red hook dollards, (I can’t think of they’re exact name but I think it’s red hook m (something) I like. More colour and not as flightly.
Yea, I have fake plants in my turtle tank as it will get really messy and I dont lose the plants to turtles and fish


All the rest are ok.

not having a go either, jus giving opinions

 

[gillsy]

yeah i know

Wasn't a go back either

Just want to keep things clear for alterese.

 

[largeheaded1]

its starting to look nice and pretty tho haha

alterese where are you from, there are a lot of good fish forums that would be able to help you out, im a member of qldaf for qld memers, pm me if your from qld.

 

[gillsy]

Americans – no way all but the rams will destroy everything in your tank
Not true, I have kept Americans for many years, ranging from Rams to the big 'aggressive' ones, they do not destroy the tank
Destroy you tank, by aggression to other tank members not necessarily the physical tank. In a community tank I wouldn’t keep the aggressive cichlids. I’m not saying they wouldn’t work, as I’ve done many things that ‘aren’t supposed to work’. But for a newbie trying to get a good mix I would avoid them.
Ohhh ok yea there are some aggressive ones out there. At the same time there are ALOT of peaceful ones, I have never had a problem except for 2 brasiliensis....besides that Jack Dempsey’s and stuff is fine. You want one that can hold its own more so as there will be turtles in the tank. There are different types of aggression though, they are more of a territorial fish which triggers the aggression, just make sure you have plenty of hidey holes and logs/caves for them.
True, yet Brasiliensis I have found generally to be peaceful, except if breeding. I love firemouths, but they come in waives of availability.




Loach – Kuhli you’ll never see, I wouldn’t bother, Clowns have 5+ you’ll be fine.
I have 4 clowns with my turtles and they are fine.
1 will work fine, but doesn’t necessarily make it good. I like clowns in large schools, they look better and are fun to watch.
Yea that’s true, a group of 5 plus would look awesome but these guys grow to be over 1 foot which if you had 5 or 6 could be quite cramped.
Yeah however they do grow large but take many years, and are always easy to get rid of. I bought 10 5 inch ones and they only grew about an inch in the 5 years I’ve had them


Silver Dollar’s/Scats – you can but they are flightily and will eat your plants
I find these guys very good with turtles as they are quick and very hard for the turtle to catch
Yeah, true. Depends if you want plants or not. Personal preference. I’ve always found silver dollars flighty and I personally think they’re not attractive. The red hook dollars, (I can’t think of they’re exact name but I think its red hook m (something) I like. More colour and not as flighty.
Yea, I have fake plants in my turtle tank as it will get really messy and I don’t lose the plants to turtles and fish
I hate plastic plants, I’d rather get cheap plants and replace them. Java fern, moss and the tough plants do really well.
J

 

[aterese]

I'm hating the plastic plants (though fake coral is great). They are just so sparce....need to definitely add some dense real plants.

If I only have gravel, without dirting the water up what plants can I get away with. Must I add sand or something else to have live plants?