Uv ???
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saximus
Almost Legendary
It isn't needed
Many snakes do not require UV to remain relatively healthy in captivity. It could be argued that UV assists in normal activity and appetite stimulation and may assist with stimulating the production of Vitamin D3, which assists in the proper development of skeletal features and calcium absorption. It may well be benificial for snakes, including nocturnal species whom almost certainly bask in full spectrum light, but it certainly will do no harm. To answer your question, in my opinion, it's not a requirement for your snake to survive, but it may assist your snake to thrive.
Regards
Wing_Nut
Regards
Wing_Nut
saximus
Almost Legendary
Just to elaborate (I hope you don't mind), it's my understanding that the richest source of D3 is the liver of prey items which is why it's important to offer whole prey on a regular basis rather than "bits" and also why UV is generally not considered necessary.
Discussion is always important. And I agree with your statement, however unless you can guarentee that the whole prey items that are being fed have been raised in a manner that ensures it has access to a wide variety of vitamins and minerals, and access to sufficent UV lighting then often the built up reserves of D3 in the liver may be reduced. Given a lot of feeder animals are raised in high quality set ups, ensuring your prey is sourced from a quality supplier is important.
Furthermore, exposure to UV will often lead to increased activity levels in a captive environment which can help address other potential health issues.
UV is perhaps not nesessary, but it can benefit the overall well being of captive animals in the long term. In the end, the decision remains with the keeper and what works best for them and there animals.
Regards
Wing_Nut
After losing 2 pythons last year to what the vet felt could be long term UV related problems I will not let any of my animals go without UV from now on....as above, it might not be necessary but it sure doesnt hurt to have it.
I have noticed more movement from my pythons since putting UV lights in the cages and they almost seem more vibrant in colouring.
If put on timers it also helps in giving them proper day/night time cycles.
Bill
+1
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
The biggest and most productive reptile breeding facilities in the world never provide UV for snakes, and continue to breed exceedingly healthy animals through many generations without difficulty. Simply put, lack of UV will not harm your snakes in any way, but if it makes you feel you are doing a better job of looking after your animals, it can do no harm... although there are stories coming out about possible eye damage related to the provision of UV in reptile enclosures.
Jamie
B
B_STATS
Guest
I don't use UV for my pythons but I have wondered if it would bring out their colours more. I have the dullest little Childreni and I often see pics of very vibrant ones. I still take mine out for natural Sunlight every second day. Gives me a good excuse to hold them and check them over 
With all due respect Jamie, the most productive breeding facilities in the world are very cagey about the lifespan of their animals, particularly those from the USA. As a study group, those from the USA provide the best insight into reptile keeping because of sheer size.
Additionally, the largest breeding organisations, many of which specialise in designer snakes, rotate there stock on a regular short term basis to keep up with current trends and offer a poor insight into the long term development of the animals.
Furthermore, the species kept in the largest collections don't represent the species endemic to Australian conditions. While some of that evidence may be indicative to reptiles from Australia, given so many of our reptiles were kept with UV until more recent times, there is potentially insufficient collective data to show generations of our snakes will simply follow trend in the long term.
I am led to believe there is currently research underway into bone density of captive snakes kept with and without UV, and some of the findings to date are interesting to say the least. I am unsure of the scope of this research, however I would imagine with the thousands of species kept world wide it will be indicative at best.
I would go as far to suggest in the large commercial collections you refer to there has been a steady decline in the average lifespan of captive reptiles where stock is not cycled on a short term basis. As I stated above however it is also has a potential cause hidden within the make up of the mass produced prey items that could lack nutrients or a combination of both.
The above is written with all due respect to your lifelong experience with reptiles.
Regards
Wing_Nut
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
Thanks W_N, I appreciate the comments, and I certainly stand to be corrected if evidence is forthcoming about the use of UV for snakes. A few things worth considering though (and of course the uncontrollable variables are in play here) - there doesn't seem to be any problem with Australian snakes bred in these large facilities (and they have been bred overseas for longer than they have here in many cases), and average lifespan could be shortened for a number of reasons... overfeeding to produce rapid maturity, overbreeding to maximise profits to name just two. I wonder if a snake bred in these facilities, when sold on into the pet trade, dies early regardless of the quality of the husbandry it receives for the rest of its life...
As I said, I am indeed very happy to be proven wrong on the UV thing, it's certainly not a hard-wired thing for me, but I've not seen any evidence yet to make me believe otherwise. I spent some time at Dave Barker's facility in Texas over a decade ago, and was extremely impressed with the health of all his animals and his obvious breeding successes, from Pygmy Boas to giant Retics and Scrubbies, some of which he had had for many years, and none of which were offered UV.
I think it just gets up my nose when pet shops insist to newbies that they NEED UV (and so make a useful sale) when there is (as yet) no demonstrated evidence to prove it.
AS I said, it may do no harm, but it may not do any good either...
I also doubt that our food items are lacking in nutrients - a healthy rodent is a healthy rodent, and our snakes are so overfed in captivity that it may just as easily be that they are suffering nutrient overload, rather than a deficiency of any particular thing. If anything, the nutrition may be out of balance rather than deficient.
Jamie
As I said, I am indeed very happy to be proven wrong on the UV thing, it's certainly not a hard-wired thing for me, but I've not seen any evidence yet to make me believe otherwise. I spent some time at Dave Barker's facility in Texas over a decade ago, and was extremely impressed with the health of all his animals and his obvious breeding successes, from Pygmy Boas to giant Retics and Scrubbies, some of which he had had for many years, and none of which were offered UV.
I think it just gets up my nose when pet shops insist to newbies that they NEED UV (and so make a useful sale) when there is (as yet) no demonstrated evidence to prove it.
AS I said, it may do no harm, but it may not do any good either...
I also doubt that our food items are lacking in nutrients - a healthy rodent is a healthy rodent, and our snakes are so overfed in captivity that it may just as easily be that they are suffering nutrient overload, rather than a deficiency of any particular thing. If anything, the nutrition may be out of balance rather than deficient.
Jamie
Serpent_Gazeux
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The vet I go to told me that UV can help prevent MBD in GTP's.
Anyone else been told that by their vet?
Anyone else been told that by their vet?
P
Pythoninfinite
Guest
I think he/she just made that up...
J
J
Thanks W/N
related...?
Research on Bull Frogs has shown significant differences in bone density in those individuals exposed to UV and those not exposed. The focus appeared to have been on diurnal amphibians which have a lot poorer Vit D conversion. .
The study was conducted in Atlanta by a Dr B. Lock. A synopsis was presented to an ARAV symposium in the States this year. The conclusion was that it might be shortsighted not to extrapolate this to reptiles.
Someone with better access/resources may be able to source the original.
Please don't shoot the messenger.
B
Bluetongue1
Guest
Please name a study and the Institution which performed it.
Your statements are vague generalisations. Studies that have any validity deal with hard facts that they have collected. Without the methodology being open to scrutiny, how do you know they are measuring what they say they are? Let’s assume (hypothetically) that the life span of ball pythons was reduced by an average of 12% over the established life span over wild animals when taken into captivity. How would you know that reduction in life expectancy was due to a lack of UVB light? How would you know it not due to the lack of exercise in the small rack sizes? How would you know that it is not due to genetic alterations that accompanied the selective breeding of morphs? How would you know that it was not due to something in the water in that region? How would you know that it was not due to insufficient thermal gradients within enclosures?
As soon as I see the phrase “A study was done” I am looking for “who and how”.
I can only wonder if you fully appreciate the difficulty of performing a controlled investigation into types of things you are alluding to. Simone Stone of Southern Cross Reptiles has a PhD in science and a clear and demonstrated understanding controlled scientific experiments. He performed his own long term investigations into the effects of having UVB light on snakes and not providing it. He gives an account of this in the “Doc Rock” articles on the SXR site.
As for “The vet said...” I would be going to a reptile reputable vet. Unfortunately there are some who don’t really know but are prepared to take a stab and charge you the consultation fee.
You really don’t understand about Vitamin D. Vitamin D not required by a vertebrate, stores the excess in the liver until required. It is stored in inactive form in the fat cells as it is fat soluble. Vitamin produced beyond this amount is broken down as excess Vitamin D is toxic. Snakes and varanids, just like Polar Bears, are able to access and utilise Vitamin D stored in the livers of their prey. If rodents lacked stored vitamin D it would show up as osteoporosis or skeletal deformity, muscle weakness, nerve twitches or spasms or other symptoms of the MBD. Death and cold storage does not degrade stored vitamin D.
Don’t have to take my word for it. Any vertebrate physiology book will suffaice.
Blue
EDIT: Frogs eat insects sit may apply to insect eating reptiles - the only group in question is geckoes
Your statements are vague generalisations. Studies that have any validity deal with hard facts that they have collected. Without the methodology being open to scrutiny, how do you know they are measuring what they say they are? Let’s assume (hypothetically) that the life span of ball pythons was reduced by an average of 12% over the established life span over wild animals when taken into captivity. How would you know that reduction in life expectancy was due to a lack of UVB light? How would you know it not due to the lack of exercise in the small rack sizes? How would you know that it is not due to genetic alterations that accompanied the selective breeding of morphs? How would you know that it was not due to something in the water in that region? How would you know that it was not due to insufficient thermal gradients within enclosures?
As soon as I see the phrase “A study was done” I am looking for “who and how”.
I can only wonder if you fully appreciate the difficulty of performing a controlled investigation into types of things you are alluding to. Simone Stone of Southern Cross Reptiles has a PhD in science and a clear and demonstrated understanding controlled scientific experiments. He performed his own long term investigations into the effects of having UVB light on snakes and not providing it. He gives an account of this in the “Doc Rock” articles on the SXR site.
As for “The vet said...” I would be going to a reptile reputable vet. Unfortunately there are some who don’t really know but are prepared to take a stab and charge you the consultation fee.
You really don’t understand about Vitamin D. Vitamin D not required by a vertebrate, stores the excess in the liver until required. It is stored in inactive form in the fat cells as it is fat soluble. Vitamin produced beyond this amount is broken down as excess Vitamin D is toxic. Snakes and varanids, just like Polar Bears, are able to access and utilise Vitamin D stored in the livers of their prey. If rodents lacked stored vitamin D it would show up as osteoporosis or skeletal deformity, muscle weakness, nerve twitches or spasms or other symptoms of the MBD. Death and cold storage does not degrade stored vitamin D.
Don’t have to take my word for it. Any vertebrate physiology book will suffaice.
Blue
EDIT: Frogs eat insects sit may apply to insect eating reptiles - the only group in question is geckoes
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Cockney_Red
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No!.............................lol
Serpent_Gazeux
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I don't actually use a UV light I just found it interesting that she advised me to. I take my reptiles to Brisbane Bird and Exotic Veterinary Service.
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cement
Very Well-Known Member
I have kept both full sun avairy, and indoor caged without uv pythons, and I have never noticed this. Any activity by a python can quite easily be related to other reasons.
For example, over fed individuals will move less, regardless of their uv exposure. This will definatly lead to other potential health issues.
W
wokka
Guest
The observation that UV may not do any harm, seems a very wasteful reason to supply UV. Lucky no-one ever told you that pythons benefit from having 24 carot gold bars in the cage!
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