When do you decide enough is enough?

[longqi]

This may get a bit emotional for some so please try avoid attacking others who have differing views

A pretty hot topic was recently discussed on another forum similar to this one

If you have a snake that will not eat without force feeding at what stage do you give up?

Why would you continue?
Why would you stop??

Some will say never... and thats cool
Some will say xxxxx....and thats cool

There will be some interesting replies I hope

 

[Poggle]

Personally if i bought the snake, then i should be willing to put in the effort. Some people may say a snake is a snake, but to me a gold plated olive python is no different then a standard carpet. I would continue to force feed if that is what was required to do so.

 

[Schnecke]

For me, it would completely come down to what caused the non-feeding in the first place (Injury, illness etc) and the individual's quality of life comes to mind as well (If the snake was otherwise "normal" with normal behaviour then it would differ to a snake that never left a hide, was not active, spent all it's time in the cool end and was generally in ill health.)

 

[snakeynewbie]

What schneke said

 

[longqi]

With a hatchy as a simple example you may never know whats wrong
Some just dont want to eat?

 

[hugsta]

I don't think a 'buyer' should ever get a snake that is not feeding and doing the right things in general, so this would really revolve more around breeders. I would also be looking at the cause for it's non feeding and if it were a medical condition, such as no tongue flicker and zero reaction to any food, as in a problem with its epiglotis, it would eventually be euthenaised. However if there was not reason for the animal not to feed, then I have generally found force feeding doesn't need to be done for that long for that snake to realise it is food and they should eat on there own. Most will feed on their own within a few months, some after only one or two feeds.The longest I have force fed a snake was a coastal, it took 8 months to get going and when it did, it powered on like a trooper and was sold to a friend within 6 weeks it fed so well. On the flip side, these animals would most likely never survive in the wild and we are only bringing 'weaker' genetics into breeding cycle. Will this end up detrimental or will it be the key to providing new and exciting morphs.....who knows!! As for a simple time frame, I think it is a case by case scenario and you have to work with what cards life has dealt you and what would be best for your animal. This would be a personal choice and most likely the topic for another discussion.

 

[Waterrat]

I think Longqi's question doesn't necessarily apply to a snake you bought or were given.
Over the years I had few juveniles that had to be force-fed for several months and that's when I gave up and euthanized them. I don't believe they would have grown into healthy, strong adults, I would certainly not sell them to anyone, so I either gave them to a friend (where they died at later stage) or put them down. That's from a breeder's point of view.

 

[longqi]

Question actually applies to all snakes but very applicable to breeders and hatchies and possible connections with genetic conditions

Its interesting how many threads about hatchies not feeding are Albino Darwins considering the very low number of these in existence?

Very honest answer Waterrat
But could they have survived if someone had absolutely maximised their effort in trying to keep them going?

If they had survived how do others think they would have bred?

Do I duck now?

 

[ericrs]

im with you waterrat. unless i gave it to a friend i could trust i would humanely euthanize them. i dont see the point in bringing a known weak animal into captivity and having it possibly breed down the track. we need the strong to survive and breed.

 

[Poggle]

I have a female Tully who i got off a friend cause he was having to force feed and didnt want to any more. I force fed her for 3 months and for the last 4 feeds now she has been as keen as mustard to eat. I think it does vary on the snake, and i completely understand Waterrats point of view. I took on the snake knowing the issue, i would never ever sell one if it had this issue already.

im with you waterrat. unless i gave it to a friend i could trust i would humanely euthanize them. i dont see the point in bringing a known weak animal into captivity and having it possibly breed down the track. we need the strong to survive and breed.

Sorry mate but i dont think it is all about keeping them to survive to breed. There is more to it then that.

 

[Kimberlyann]

I'd keep feeding for the rest of it's life if i had to just to keep a snake happy, healthy and alive, i'd do it to my daughter, my dog, a bird if i had to. Just the type of person i am i guess

 

[Waterrat]

There is a dilemma about when to start force-feeding. One would / should try to entice the snake to feed voluntarily whichever possible way possible without putting it through the trauma of force-feeding. There is a point however, beyond which the digestive system is so week that force-feeding can actually kill the snake. A hatchling that goes without food for 3 months is getting close to that threshold and by then the snake is much smaller than its siblings. Bad start already. I am not a snake farmer, I consider myself to be rather a conservation breeder and it is in my interest (both financial and ethical) not to disperse anything but perfect specimens. It's tough sometimes to euthanize a nice little GTP but I rather do it myself than seeing it dying later in someone elses hands.

 

[nagini-baby]

had no experience with non feeder snakes so cant comment. with my dragons i will try for a few weeks but if they dont start to pick up. its not fair on them to keep persevering i did at one stage give 2 struggling bubs that were going ok to a friend and they lasted about 6 months didnt grow at all and died. its not fair on them. that said i would never sell an animal that wasnt normal. eg eating pooping ect. now days i wont even give them away

 

[Waterrat]

I'd keep feeding for the rest of it's life if i had to just to keep a snake happy, healthy and alive, i'd do it to my daughter, my dog, a bird if i had to. Just the type of person i am i guess

No offence please but there is a contradiction in your statement. A snake that has to be force-fed for the rest of it's live is hardly one happy and healthy animal. Also, it's ok if you have one snake, spare some thought for breeders who produce hundreds ..... they are not cruel people.

 

[ericrs]

poggle thats why i said unless it was to someone i trusted. i dont think many people would be wanting to buy hatchies from a breeder who had to force feed either of the parents for an extended period of time.
if i knew 100% that it was going to be as a pet and not bred, then keep force feeding for sure. one day the snake just might get there. im all for that.

 

[Poggle]

There is a dilemma about when to start force-feeding. One would / should try to entice the snake to feed voluntarily whichever possible way possible without putting it through the trauma of force-feeding. There is a point however, beyond which the digestive system is so week that force-feeding can actually kill the snake. A hatchling that goes without food for 3 months is getting close to that threshold and by then the snake is much smaller than its siblings. Bad start already. I am not a snake farmer, I consider myself to be rather a conservation breeder and it is in my interest (both financial and ethical) not to disperse anything but perfect specimens. It's tough sometimes to euthanize a nice little GTP but I rather do it myself than seeing it dying later in someone elses hands.

I understand where you are comoing from mate. I never meant to imply that you were a back yard breeder as i know you are not, in my views you have some of the best specimans around. I was more referring to some that would simply keep snakes as a breeding object, not for other reasons, like simply loving the animals and what they have to offer

 

[Waterrat]

I understand where you are comoing from mate. I never meant to imply that you were a back yard breeder as i know you are not,

I never thought you did. My comments were general.

 

[Kimberlyann]

No offence please but there is a contradiction in your statement. A snake that has to be force-fed for the rest of it's live is hardly one happy and healthy animal. Also, it's ok if you have one snake, spare some thought for breeders who produce hundreds ..... they are not cruel people.

Of course i have the time to be able to feed one snake once a week because my snake's are my hobby, where as your snake's are your work. Im sure you spend most your time cleaning, feeding, breeding, incubating and so on, it would be impossible to do all of that AND look after a stubborn snake or 20. I do not think you are cruel at all, but instead of euthanising the snake's that wont feed i can take them off your hands hahahaha

 

[longqi]

Kimberly

Would you breed that snake if you got it feeding and it appeared healthy??

 

[Kimberlyann]

Kimberly

Would you breed that snake if you got it feeding and it appeared healthy??

Depends on how long it had been feeding on it's own for. What do you mean by appeared?