Woma feed attempt part I

[benjamind2010]

My feeding attempts for my two problem womas thus far does not inspire confidence in any way.
I put a freshly killed mouse in with the small female, and a freshly killed rat in with the male.

After 90 minutes I took both rodents out *sigh*, put the mouse in the fridge and the rat in the freezer, and will attempt to feed the female again later tonight, around 9pm.

I will let you know how it goes tomorrow morning. I noticed the male looks like he is just starting a shed cycle, so I will not attempt to feed him until after he has shed, but most importantly he did not refuse a feed when he was just going into shed back in September, so this time it's different.

 

[Sutto82]

How long have you had them and what age are they? From everyone I know with Woma's and including mine, they are hoovers when it comes to food.

Interesting.

 

[Squinty]

Have you tried enticing them to constrict on the rat by tapping it on their body/neck. I find sometimes that works. If they constrict it without biting it they will usually still eat it.

 

[Sutto82]

Also have you tried braining or bleeding the mice/rats? I have a young female diamond that will only eat mice, when there are washed, paper towel dried and then had there heads cracked open for brain juice..... I'm trying to wean her onto just eating normally.

 

[benjamind2010]

From everyone I know with Woma's and including mine, they are hoovers when it comes to food.
Interesting.

Mate, you're preaching to the choir. I know only too well that womas are absolute pigs...but not these ones!

What is interesting is that for the first couple of months the male went through about 6 feeds, refused 1 feed, then ate again, and then since that last feed in early November has gone off his food. The female never ate for me. I've tried little quail, small rats, and now...drum roll...mice!

Strange. Very, very, strange.

I will only start crying when the snakes keel over and die...until then I will just keep trying. Eventually though I'm concerned with the prospect of having to assist-feed - this is not force feeding, which I believe is very cruel and unacceptable - assist feeding allows the snake to decide whether to eat the food after the food is gently placed in it's mouth to open it up, whereas force-feeding one literally rams the food down the neck which I find utterly atrocious and would never ever condone.

Assist feeding can in some cases bring some snakes back to life in regards to their appetite. Some do not.
I am wondering if there is something wrong internally with the snakes...perhaps a bacterial problem maybe. Womas are supposed to be pigs.

Also have you tried braining or bleeding the mice/rats? I have a young female diamond that will only eat mice, when there are washed, paper towel dried and then had there heads cracked open for brain juice..... I'm trying to wean her onto just eating normally.

I will give that a go, but I don't have my hopes up as I believe I've tried this before, just not with fresh killed, so maybe it will make a difference.

Have you tried enticing them to constrict on the rat by tapping it on their body/neck. I find sometimes that works. If they constrict it without biting it they will usually still eat it.

I'm told that can stress them out...

They are both yearlings.

 

[stimigex]

These snakes came from a respected breeder and were feeding at the time!
Its a great pitty you burned that bridge as he would be the one to approach
in regards to the husbandry problems you have that have switched these snakes off!

 

[Ramsayi]

Get your husbandry correct before anything else,since both are giving you a hard time it is most likely that they are not happy in their current setup,temps included.

 

[benjamind2010]

Hang on a minute, my husbandry is correct. Temps range from 33 degrees at the warm end to around 23-25 degrees at the cool end.

Why is it that the big female I have does not give me any problems?! She's NEVER refused a feed, and is getting pretty damned close to adult size. Another 1cm added to her girth and she'll be ready for breeding. She'll breed this year, guaranteed, she's big and getting bigger.

The other two, it's like they've given up on eating. I will of course keep trying.

It's always laughable that when someone's snakes become problem feeders and someone always jumps in and says it's because of husbandry problems...conveniently ignoring the fact that my large female woma has never refused a single feed since I've had her. Get your facts straight.

 

[Ramsayi]

Hang on a minute, my husbandry is correct. Temps range from 33 degrees at the warm end to around 23-25 degrees at the cool end.

Obviously not that's why you are having a problem with them.

 

[Jarden]

How about throwing away nasty *** rats thats been sitting there for 90 minutes ? Think about all the bacteria growing on them whilst being in the enclosure then you freeze them and try again later? Would you defrost chicken decide later in the arvo you dont want it for dinner then re freeze it with all the bacteria growing on it during the day ? Husbandry can come into play . Just saying.... How old are they, What size enclosure / tubs are they in have they got plenty of hides .

 

[benjamind2010]

In the end I may have to part with them, as sad as that will be, because I want to keep trying. I've already worked on the husbandry problems, and thought about it carefully, and made some minor adjustments on the thermostat a week or so ago, that may improve the temperature range. The big female I have and the male are both going into shed, the big female is about to shed, and the male is just getting started in the shed cycle, his eyes are starting to look a bit milky, so I won't attempt any feed until the male sheds.

THe big female is fine, never had trouble with her.

It's just these particular snakes. I'm going to also look into it if antibiotics will help, perhaps some flora in their digestive tract has gotten out of control, these things do happen. Pathogens are all around us, we can't forget those risks because they are there.

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

Benjamind, have you tried everything else that was suggested last time too?

 

[Ramsayi]

How are they being heated? What type of tank/tub are they in etc?

 

[benjamind2010]

How about throwing away nasty *** rats thats been sitting there for 90 minutes ? Think about all the bacteria growing on them whilst being in the enclosure then you freeze them and try again later? Would you defrost chicken decide later in the arvo you dont want it for dinner then re freeze it with all the bacteria growing on it during the day ? Husbandry can come into play . Just saying.... How old are they, What size enclosure / tubs are they in have they got plenty of hides .

These rodents were freshly killed, so freezing them is OK.

The enclosures are suitable for a NT woma. A bit too small for a SA woma, but absolutely fine for a NT woma. They have breeder's choice which is newspaper pellets. I may change that over to newspaper and see if that helps.

 

[Ramsayi]

These rodents were freshly killed, so freezing them is OK.

The enclosures are suitable for a NT woma. A bit too small for a SA woma, but absolutely fine for a NT woma. They have breeder's choice which is newspaper pellets. I may change that over to newspaper and see if that helps.

In your opinion they are suitable but can you just answer my questions? better yet take a pic of the setup

 

[Sezzzzzzzzz]

it may be worth a visit to a vet as you suggested in an earlier post..

 

[benjamind2010]

How are they being heated? What type of tank/tub are they in etc?

They are being kept in a FB70 Freedom Breeder rack, which, strictly speaking are actually the best way to keep snakes as it minimises any stress... and the heating mechanism is absolutely fine. It is controlled by a thermostat which is set at 33-34 degrees.

Obviously not that's why you are having a problem with them.

And why, say you, is the big female I have not giving me any problems?

 

[Ramsayi]

They are being kept in a FB70 Freedom Breeder rack, which, strictly speaking are actually the best way to keep snakes as it minimises any stress... and the heating mechanism is absolutely fine. It is controlled by a thermostat which is set at 33-34 degrees.

You keep insisting that it is nothing you are or are not doing yet everything points to husbandry.

What is the minimum temp getting down to in particular very early morning?

 

[benjamind2010]

In your opinion they are suitable but can you just answer my questions? better yet take a pic of the setup

Here we go.

Reptile Racks Australia/FB17

It is the FB17 rack.

You keep insisting that it is nothing you are or are not doing yet everything points to husbandry.

What is the minimum temp getting down to in particular very early morning?

I will have to measure that with a thermometer. I have no idea what the minimum temp gets down to, especially very early morning. Maybe that could be the problem. I will have to check it out.

 

[Ramsayi]

Is the wall the rack is against an internal or external wall?