Autopsy of snake completed

[wokka]

There are many different types of worms, some do more harm than others, some spread easier than others too, some worms need to be spread via a host animal. Feeding skinks is the easiest way to catch worms. Almost all wild pythons would carry worms of some type or another.

Accordingly different drugs effect different types of worms so it is advisble to determine what you are fighting rather than upsetting the gut microflora unecessarily.

 

[daniel0]

How do you worm your snakes, what do you use?

 

[wokka]

You put the wormicide in a rat and feed it to the snake.

 

[cris]

Is there any proof that harmful worms can come from rats?

In fairness to the seller,

The seller only purchaed the snake from a breeder mid year this year.

It was then cooled over the winter months.

Why the.. are they cooling it, that is quite likely what could have killed it. Snakes should only be cooled for breeding, it should not be done unless you are experienced either, so many keepers i hear of not heating in winter, just asking for dead snakes...

 

[craftsman]

Hey, this is strange- there are 3 pages of comments and opinions but we still don't know what kind of "worms" were responsible for the snake's death. Wouldn't that be a good staring point to identify the culprits first? Cestodes, trematodes and others have different life-cycles, different ecology and different treatment is required to eradicate / control them.
Worms aint worms!

 

[salebrosus]

The seller should have played it safe and wormed the snake before being cooled.

EXACTLY! The animals immune system slows down when being cooled hence the reason so many animals become incredibly ill and in many cases die.

AND seriously, why would you cool a yearling down?

Also, why don't people worm their animals the moment they get them? I understand that this would not have saved this particular animal but i always worm any new animal i purchase, regardless of whether the seller has told me they have.

 

[salebrosus]

My advice is that if you are having NO problems, then don’t fiddle with your snakes. If they are captive bred they should have no parasites.

In many cases animals through pet shops are not captive bred.......and really who knows what we are getting? I prefer to be safe than sorry, and touch wood, i've never had an issue with worms in my snakes.

 

[No-two]

I'd say they were cooling the yearling to save on feeding it, in the end it's all about money, if they can save some money then by god they will.

 

[craftsman]

EXACTLY! The animals immune system slows down when being cooled hence the reason so many animals become incredibly ill and in many cases die.

AND seriously, why would you cool a yearling down?

Also, why don't people worm their animals the moment they get them? I understand that this would not have saved this particular animal but i always worm any new animal i purchase, regardless of whether the seller has told me they have.

That may be your personal preference and I respect that. However, be aware that to kill any endoparasite, you need to administer toxic chemical into the host, which has invariably adverse effect of the host's immune and metabolic system. To put it simply, you are partially poisoning your reptile. It's not a recommended practice unless it's absolutely necessary. Far safer way is to analyze the snake's faeces regularly, identify the worms / eggs (if present) and let an EXPERIENCED (with reptiles) vet to prescribe a treatment.

 

[LullabyLizard]

I'm glad it wasn't your fault. Its a shame that an animal has to die because a pet shop didn't know anything about snakes

 

[horsesrule]

I have been giving it some thought today and i am still suprised that this happened.

The seller i purchased this snake from i am sure nearly everyone in here who buys herps has gone through. I mean is it just a case of due to large numbers every now and then you will lose one like this ? Or was this just neglect to care for the animal properly?

I am going to ask for my money back and get a replacement elsewhere. I am not prepared to take the risk with another one that may well also to be infected.

I am going to call the vet again tommorrow and ask him which worms were present and ill let you all know.

 

[coz666]

heres a different thought, not aimed at the thread starter....
i saw a mates puppy die from worms and it took less time from being seen in the feaces to its demise even with treatment.
it can take less than eleven days to kill a hatchie or yearling from worms.
if per chance someone you new had worms or had been playinin in the yard and had not anti bacted before holding the python that could have easily been transfered the worm.

i am surprised the petshop didnt worm the pythons as soon as entered into the shop.
with all the other animals that need worming as per sales requirements, you wonder what goes through their minds. the problem is petshops especially the large ones have such a huge amount of stock that it tricks the customer into a false sence of good practices. when it is a very dirty game behind the scenes.
and the sales geek will be selling a dog then a bird then a cat then you walk in and its oh yeah you can have this let me just get it for you. ...............................if you see this happengo from one animal to a herp and dont see them use anti bact get up them.
everyone should try it, its fun to watch them squirm. well if ya bored

 

[horsesrule]

Rang vet regarding the type of worms found within the snake. He is off today the nurse advised that they were intestinal worms.

I will ring again tommorrow when he is on and get a exact name of the species of worm.

 

[craftsman]

Horsesrule, buy your next snake from a reputable breeder and give the pet shops flick. Most pet shops sell everything from dogs, cats, birds to mice & rats and all the animals are handled by the staff at some stage or another. Have you ever seen the staff washing their hands before handling an animal? I haven't. The risk of disease transmission is very high and we can't expect the pet shop owners to spend money on faecal analysis and treatment. With all fairness, we can't expect them to do that.

 

[Kris]

Craftsman, I think you'll find this was bought from a "reputable dealer" judging by comments Horsesrule made before.

 

[No-two]

Craftsman, I think you'll find this was bought from a "reputable dealer" judging by comments Horsesrule made before.

I believe he meant non comercial, besides who said the person is reputable, large scale, yes, reputable is arguable.

 

[Miss_Croft]

horsesrule - Just be careful with worming your Turtles – some chemicals can cross into their brains resulting in fits and eventually death. (noted with Ivermectin) Not sure about lizards and pythons. But nearly 100% death rate to tortoises.

Ivermectin (Ivomec) may be fatal to your turtles and Piperazine (used in dog wormers) and Levamisole may be problematic. All three of these are used in mammal worming treatment.

The worms in question were most probably pin worms (Note there are over 1000 different types of known worms and protozoa that effect reptiles – some of the most evil ones are lung worms found in South American pythons. Part of the reason exotic snakes are illegal in Australia)

If you want to worm your reptiles I suggest you use both praziquantel and fenbendazole (Reptile Science Worm rid) – I am sure some of the sponsors on this site will be able to help you out.

If you want to know if your animal has worms – You will need sugar, water, a microscope.

• Mix sugar and water (You will be able to find the measurements on the net)
• Mix the faeces of the animal (And also take a swab of the mouth) with the sugar and water mixture
• Take a sample of the floating debris and view in microscope

This is the hard bit – what are you looking at – there are books on how to identify what you are look at under the microscope.

If you have a large collection of reptiles best practice (From the US) suggests regally checking and/or worming your collection. (The books talk about every 6 months.) If you have a large collection (more than say 5 reptiles) I would learn how to use a microscope and check every 3 months.

There are two different types of warms and other parasites – direct and indirect. The latter is an issue to reptile keepers because they keep their snake/lizard/turtle in the same place all the time.

I am sure there are worms and other parasites that infect mice and reptiles (Pin, round and tape worms are some examples) or insects and reptiles.

About worming – you should change empty your cage out, disinfect and change substrate – then worm once – two weeks later repeat. Reason – the warming agent does not kill warm eggs – it only kills the lava and adult worms.

Last note – in all fairness of the pet shop – they are NOT vets and really only buy and sell pets and pet products. The snake in question may or may not have received the warms while in their care. It does bring us to another point – just because the snake is captive bred does not mean it will be free of worms.

 

[Kersten]

The thing is the seller i went through is a reputable dealer one of the most reputable in Aus. I am sure thats why they are covering the vet autopsy costs.

Actually No-Two he did mention this guy was a reputable dealer.

Sorry about the multiple personality posting here, I didn't realise Kris was logged on already before posting, just assumed it was in my login.

 

[horsesrule]

Due to forum rules i am now allowed to say who the seller was in the forum however what i can say is the seller is someone most people in this forum know and have probably gone through at one point in time. This seller is one of the largest reptile sellers in Aus!

If you want to know who it was i can tell you in pm

 

[horsesrule]

I only went through this seller because i seen them Advertised in Reptiles Australia magazine.