Ban the deed not the breed!!

[KaotikJezta]

I have read three separate reports as I don't have a TV to watch the news, and all said the kids were in the street and the dog chased them into the house.

 

[grimbeny]

It actually chased some other kids that were out on the street into their house if you want to get technical, also, it was a crossbreed for a start off, it could have been 1/10th pitbull and the media would still be saying it was a pitbull. As for the little kids statement, my youngest son was three when I had a pure pitbull and 5 when I had a cross. My daughter-in-law grew up with pitbulls, as did my grandson and granddaughter so don't make assumptions. There is an aboriginal mission in Nambucca heads that can get pretty dodgy at times, pitbulls and staffies are the only two breeds of dogs they trust with their kids. You quite often see little kids walking round the mission with there dogs in tow. There has never been one attack on a child there by a human or a dog, ever, and they have been using those types of dogs for years and years, probably longer than you've been alive so keep your uneducated opinions out of it until you can back them up with real facts, not media generated propaganda.

What like BS anecdotal evidence that is not related to the problem?

 

[KaotikJezta]

What like BS anecdotal evidence that is not related to the problem?

Funny how when it's defending the breed it's BS but wen it's condemning it it's the truth.

 

[Just_Joshin]

OMG.... now this is just getting out of hand!!!!!!!!! the REALITY is that they are and will be Slammed as dangerous and banned breed.

STOP pointing the finger to other breeds!! and YOU will not be able to stop the fact. no matter how cute or calm the dog is. and all my life i have not herd of any other breed of dog killing a person.! * there might have been but i havent herd or seen it*

When that girl died from the pitty attack, i had someone say to me it was probally her fault for teaseing it.! thats bull, it was in there yard when it shouldnt have been and it GOD DAMM KILLED HER!!! can't yous get it threw your head's?? Just think if yous have little kids. one day they dog might turn on them and you wont be able to save the kid.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! think about it hard.!

Dude, take a deep breath, get your over dramatic uneducated head screwed on straight and then go and re-read my post. Nowhere did i "point the finger" at other breeds or make excuses for the pitbulls. I simply pointed out a fact (one that i know from experience) that explains how we still have so many pitbulls in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

Now.....here is my take on the pitbull saga......

I personally, agree with the fact that the majority of the problem surrounding pitbulls is their upbringing and the lack of training they have received. The fact is, pitbulls were bred, as the name suggests, to fight in pits. The have been line bred to exhibit undeniable strength both in body and bite and have a "blood thirsty" and aggressive streak to them. This is a fact that no-one, no matter how much you try, can defend.

NOW..I also agree that in general terms, the pitbulls themselves are not aggressive dogs if brought up correctly. They can be loving, caring, obedient, kind hearted, loving family pets. However, the problems exists in the fact that IF or WHEN something causes a dog to lash out or have a "brain snap", a pitbull is capable (and has been seen over and over) of delivery devasting damage in a VERY VERY short time frame. They have been designed to inflict major damage, they are stronger and deliver a much more powerful bite then many other breeds, larger or smaller than themselves.

It is unfortunate that too many people own them that do not give them the proper training and upbringing to dramatically minimise the risk of such an attack occuring. The fact is, the majority of people who owns these type of breeds do so because they want a dog that is loyal to them and WILL get aggressive and attack people. They buy these dogs BECAUSE they are tough, BECAUSE they can kill many other breeds. BECAUSE they will rarely back down from a challenge/fight and BECAUSE they like the stigma associated with owning a breed of this nature. This unfortunately has lead to the breed being regarded as "restricted" and will ultimately lead to this breed becoming illegal in every sense of the word if something is not done soon.

All of these thoughts DO NOT extend to Xbreeds. I am purely commenting on pure bred pittys.

Just to be sure everybody understands what breed the media is talking about as well i have attached some pics. Bullys are very commonly mistaken by the public as pittys.
THIS IS A PITTY
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../220px-American_Pit_Bull_Terrier_-_Seated.jpg
THIS IS A BULLY
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...emelle.jpg/220px-Bullterrierrouge_femelle.jpg

 

[KaotikJezta]

Funny thing is, they have tried banning Bull Terriers in the past for the exact same reasons.

 

[Firedrake]

The one Bull Terrier I knew, I didn't trust, but the family that owned him had two small children and did trust him. I always thought that Bull Terriers were more likely to turn neurotic and paranoid because of their tendancy to go blind and deaf later in life, therefore I would trust a Pitty over a Bull any day. My parents owned a Chihauha when I was a baby, he went blind and would attack anything that moved so they had to get him put down. I know an Amstaff pitty cross and he's the most loving thing in this world, the couple who own him have a four year old girl and they trust him with her. It's up to the people who keep these dogs to earn the good name they deserve as protectors and loyal loving companions, and up to the few mongrels out there who own them as fighting machines and give them this bad rap to go and drop dead or get themselves killed.

 

[coastalboy]

Dude, take a deep breath, get your over dramatic uneducated head screwed on straight and then go and re-read my post. Nowhere did i "point the finger" at other breeds or make excuses for the pitbulls. I simply pointed out a fact (one that i know from experience) that explains how we still have so many pitbulls in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

Now.....here is my take on the pitbull saga......

I personally, agree with the fact that the majority of the problem surrounding pitbulls is their upbringing and the lack of training they have received. The fact is, pitbulls were bred, as the name suggests, to fight in pits. The have been line bred to exhibit undeniable strength both in body and bite and have a "blood thirsty" and aggressive streak to them. This is a fact that no-one, no matter how much you try, can defend.

NOW..I also agree that in general terms, the pitbulls themselves are not aggressive dogs if brought up correctly. They can be loving, caring, obedient, kind hearted, loving family pets. However, the problems exists in the fact that IF or WHEN something causes a dog to lash out or have a "brain snap", a pitbull is capable (and has been seen over and over) of delivery devasting damage in a VERY VERY short time frame. They have been designed to inflict major damage, they are stronger and deliver a much more powerful bite then many other breeds, larger or smaller than themselves.

It is unfortunate that too many people own them that do not give them the proper training and upbringing to dramatically minimise the risk of such an attack occuring. The fact is, the majority of people who owns these type of breeds do so because they want a dog that is loyal to them and WILL get aggressive and attack people. They buy these dogs BECAUSE they are tough, BECAUSE they can kill many other breeds. BECAUSE they will rarely back down from a challenge/fight and BECAUSE they like the stigma associated with owning a breed of this nature. This unfortunately has lead to the breed being regarded as "restricted" and will ultimately lead to this breed becoming illegal in every sense of the word if something is not done soon.

All of these thoughts DO NOT extend to Xbreeds. I am purely commenting on pure bred pittys.

Just to be sure everybody understands what breed the media is talking about as well i have attached some pics. Bullys are very commonly mistaken by the public as pittys.
THIS IS A PITTY
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped.../220px-American_Pit_Bull_Terrier_-_Seated.jpg
THIS IS A BULLY
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...emelle.jpg/220px-Bullterrierrouge_femelle.jpg

THATS totally understandable! but what i cannot get is why everyone is trying so hard to keep them. seriously if i had a dog then it was class as dangerous or banned! i deffiently wouldn't keep it no matter what!!!!!!!!!!!!... you tell me to get my head straight i think other in this post need more straighter heads then me! and saying you seen a lab or kelpie or blue healer bit someone , they should band them, that is pointing the finger.!!!! I have fully grown bull mastiffs and yes they are massive dogs, bigger then pittys and if any of them bite or even showed aggression to someone i would get rid of it.! its just common sense.!???

i no people with roman nose terriers and beleive me they are one ugly dog! i would never own it. its surprising what people call cute and attractive these days aye.... im over this post. this is my last post and if they are banned dogs and they are going to crack down it might be wise not to post pictures of your dog on here aye.!

 

[KaotikJezta]

THATS totally understandable! but what i cannot get is why everyone is trying so hard to keep them. seriously if i had a dog then it was class as dangerous or banned! i deffiently wouldn't keep it no matter what!!!!!!!!!!!!... you tell me to get my head straight i think other in this post need more straighter heads then me! and saying you seen a lab or kelpie or blue healer bit someone , they should band them, that is pointing the finger.!!!! I have fully grown bull mastiffs and yes they are massive dogs, bigger then pittys and if any of them bite or even showed aggression to someone i would get rid of it.! its just common sense.!???

i no people with roman nose terriers and beleive me they are one ugly dog! i would never own it. its surprising what people call cute and attractive these days aye.... im over this post. this is my last post and if they are banned dogs and they are going to crack down it might be wise not to post pictures of your dog on here aye.!

Hmm, they have tried to ban Bull Mastiffs in the past as well, they are the kind of dogs most of the people that want these dogs outlawed don't like, so are your dogs the kind of dogs that have no place in suburbia.

 

[Firedrake]

As if you would part willingly with any pet of yours whether they'd just mauled someone or not! I can guarantee if you have any compassion for your animals you would be bawling your eyes out begging for their release, making excuses for them.

 

[Australis]

To play devils advocate...

33 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2010. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 500 U.S. cities, pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 67% (22). Pit bulls make up approximately 5% of the total U.S. dog population

Source: 2010 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - DogsBite.org


Now if a breed only making up 5% of North Americas dog population can be reasonable for 67% of fatalities, there is obviously a serious problem associated with the breed.

Read some of the stories, it would seem its not just obvious fighting dogs, but also loved family pets that are causing fatalities.


Here is just one:

Christine Staab
37-years old | Philadelphia, PA
Christine Staab, 37-years old, was mauled to death by one of her mother's six pit bulls. The victim had gone to her mother's home early that morning and the two reportedly had an argument, which set the dog, named Jade, off. The pit bull latched onto Christine's throat, killing her. The dog did not let go of the victim until being shot to death by Philadelphia police officers (a second pit bull was also shot dead at the scene). Christine's stepfather, Thomas Fowler, and mother, Barbara Erb, defended their pet pit bulls on local news stations. Erb described the six pit bulls as "house dogs" that were well cared for and even microchipped for identification. "They were spoiled rotten," Erb said. "They were not neglected in any way." Both Fowler and Erb pleaded with authorities to have the remaining four pit bulls seized by authorities returned to them

 

[Smithers]

Bull Breeds are awesome, That's all I have to say

 

[Australis]

As if you would part willingly with any pet of yours whether they'd just mauled someone or not! I can guarantee if you have any compassion for your animals you would be bawling your eyes out begging for their release, making excuses for them.

If a dog i owned mauled someone, i wouldn't think twice about putting a bullet in it.

 

[KaotikJezta]

To play devils advocate...

Source: 2010 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - DogsBite.org


Now if a breed only making up 5% of North Americas dog population can be reasonable for 67% of fatalities, there is obviously a serious problem associated with the breed.

Read some of the stories, it would seem its not just obvious fighting dogs, but also loved family pets that are causing fatalities.


Here is just one:

Quoting data from an anti-pitbull site is no more usefull than quoting from a pro-pitbull site.

 

[Firedrake]

Hello, they don't like threats against their family!!! Being the loyal pack animals they are they won't stand for anything that they perceive as violence, whether it be arguing or yelling or squealing kids! That pitbull was 'defending' her owner, the fact that the daughter had gone over there and had an argument with the owner (her mother) had 'set the dog off' as was reported!

 

[KaotikJezta]

And reading the data, nearly all of the children killed by dogs were killed by other breeds, and a lot of the adult cases were dogs kept in pits, chained, not trained properly, strangers in the house, arguments and violence, etc. Ten therer are all the cross breeds that they have reported as pibulls disregarding the mix. It is also interesting that when you read the citations, the news coverage of attacks by other breeds don't include what breed in the headlines like they do for the pitbull attacks, it is also interesting that they refer to crossbred pitbulls in the headlines as pitbulls.

 

[Red-Ink]

Neither pro nor against the breed... though I have a soft spot for them having owned one.

The bottom line is they are not like a "regular" dog, they have a predisposition to explosive sudden violence, they're stronger than other dogs, their stubborness and sometimes untrainable attitude, their need for proper socialisation... all need to be taken into account when owning one.

Fail to do so then it's your own fault for not understanding and taking that into account and I would fully support having the owner charge to the full extent of the law (heck throw the book at them and charge them with man slaughter if it results in a fatality or grevious assualt if it bites somebody). But to ban the breed is a knee jerk mob mentality which IMO would be illogical.
I for one do not want the choice taken away from me in deciding to own one again should I choose to do so by the fear mongering masses or this over letigious government trying to appease the scared masses and stay in power.

Make the penalties tougher then only the truly responsibles ones would even think of getting them.

 

[Australis]

Hello, they don't like threats against their family!!! Being the loyal pack animals they are they won't stand for anything that they perceive as violence, whether it be arguing or yelling or squealing kids! That pitbull was 'defending' her owner, the fact that the daughter had gone over there and had an argument with the owner (her mother) had 'set the dog off' as was reported!

You don't really think its acceptable for a dog attack to be triggered by squealing kids?

And reading the data, nearly all of the children killed by dogs were killed by other breeds, and a lot of the adult cases were dogs kept in pits, chained, not trained properly, strangers in the house, arguments and violence, etc. Ten therer are all the cross breeds that they have reported as pibulls disregarding the mix. It is also interesting that when you read the citations, the news coverage of attacks by other breeds don't include what breed in the headlines like they do for the pitbull attacks, it is also interesting that they refer to crossbred pitbulls in the headlines as pitbulls.

What data, where?

Would it really matter where i got data from?
If i trawl online journal databases, and cite data published in peer reviewed journals i cant imagine you would accept that either.

 

[grimbeny]

Fail to do so then it's your own fault for not understanding and taking that into account and I would fully support having the owner charge to the full extent of the law (heck throw the book at them and charge them with man slaughter if it results in a fatality or grevious assualt if it bites somebody).

Do you think this sort of post event punnishment will make the low lifes who are buying a dog because it is awesome and could kill someone think that the risks are too high. Or will they just think that it wont happen to them. If it is the latter then the punishment is not doing anything to protect the poor 4 year old girls who are being mauled to death!

You don't really think its acceptable for a dog attack to be triggered by squealing kids?




What data, where?

Would it really matter where i got data from?
If i trawl online journal databases, and cite data published in peer reviewed journals i cant imagine you would accept that either.

I wouldnt argue with him Australis he earlier posted a website that had these statistics that were "based" on a previous study. When i found the previous study through google scholar, i found that the website was a complete fabrication and the study actually showed that pitbulls were responcible for more deaths than any other breed despite accounting for a small number of the dogs in the US. Statistical data is not rellevent to these people, only their experience...

 

[Crystal..Discus]

Make the penalties tougher then only the truly responsible ones would even think of getting them.

This and completely this. It needs to apply to EVERY animal though. People buy puppies not knowing what they're truly getting into, and five years later it spends 98% of its life in a yard with no attention. Then when the animal lashes out or gets out (causes havoc) the owners ask everyone but themselves "why?"

I'd be happier if there was a licensing system in place to own dogs (yearly registration, movement advices, mandatory vet checks etc), but I'd settle for fines that had a little more 'oomph' behind them.

 

[KaotikJezta]

You don't really think its acceptable for a dog attack to be triggered by squealing kids?




What data, where?


Would it really matter where i got data from?
If i trawl online journal databases, and cite data published in peer reviewed journals i cant imagine you would accept that either.

A study on dog bites was published in 2006 in The Veterinary Journal. The authors collected data on the characteristics of dog bites over a period of 8.5 months in six different hospital emergency departments. In 67% of the documented incidents, the bites appeared to be triggered by an interaction with a child, and so-called “dangerous dogs” were not responsible for the majority of the incidents.http://www.breeders.net/k9-articles/2010/08/pit-bulls-vicious-or-poorly-bred-and-socialized/#_edn1
Another study published in the journal Pediatrics in 1994 identified German Shepherds and Chow Chows as the dogs most likely to bite.[ii] In this study, cases were selected from dogs reported to Denver Animal Control in 1991 for biting.
A study published in 2008 in the journal Applied Animal Behaviour Science came to a totally different conclusion after studying 30 dog breeds using the Canine Behavioral Assessment and Research Questionnaire:

Breeds with the greatest percentage of dogs exhibiting serious aggression (bites or bite attempts) toward humans included Dachshunds, Chihuahuas and Jack Russell Terriers (toward strangers and owners); Australian Cattle Dogs (toward strangers); and American Cocker Spaniels and Beagles (toward owners). More than 20% of Akitas, Jack Russell Terriers and Pit Bull Terriers were reported as displaying serious aggression toward unfamiliar dogs. Golden Retrievers, Labradors Retrievers, Bernese Mountain Dogs, Brittany Spaniels, Greyhounds and Whippets were the least aggressive toward both humans and dogs.[iii]



http://www.breeders.net/k9-articles/2010/08/pit-bulls-vicious-or-poorly-bred-and-socialized/#_ednref De Keuster, Tiny, Lamoureux, Jean, and kahn, Andre. Epidemiology of Dog Bites: A Belgian Experience of Canine Behaviour and Public Health Concerns. The Veterinary Journal 172(3): 482-487. November, 2006.
[ii] Gershman, Kenneth A., Sacks, Jeffrey Jl, and Wright, John C. Which Dogs Bite? A Case-Control Study of Risk Factors. Pediatrics 93(6): 913 – 917. June, 1994.
[iii] Duffya, Deborah L., Hsub, Yuying, Serpell, James A. Breed Differences in Canine Aggression. Applied Animal Behaviour Science 114(3): 441 – 460. December 1, 2008.



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Do you think this sort of post event punnishment will make the low lifes who are buying a dog because it is awesome and could kill someone think that the risks are too high. Or will they just think that it wont happen to them. If it is the latter then the punishment is not doing anything to protect the poor 4 year old girls who are being mauled to death!



I wouldnt argue with him Australis he earlier posted a website that had these statistics that were "based" on a previous study. When i found the previous study through google scholar, i found that the website was a complete fabrication and the study actually showed that pitbulls were responcible for more deaths than any other breed despite accounting for a small number of the dogs in the US. Statistical data is not rellevent to these people, only their experience...

I'm a female just for the record and I also acknowledged that the website had indeed changed the results of the study in question but if you want to start in on personal attacks be my guest just don't expect me to play.