UPDATED: Disgusting case of neglect (pic heavy)

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I have to wonder whether or not making accusations to the DEC that some of the animals are wild caught isn’t a bit over the top without anything to back this accusation up. Looking at the pics posted I can't see any critter that is on deaths door and in fact I find far worse conditioned critters in the wild at times. Besides dirty cages and some relatively thin specimens, I think the vet probably made a fair call.
Today I was contacted by this chap as he was looking at contacts to sell off his entire collection and hence I read this thread.
I asked this fellow why he fed his critters before going on holiday and he admitted it was a stupid mistake.
I asked him had he asked anyone to check on his collection while he was away and he admitted he didn't but foolishly thought that they would be okay as long as he provided water but no heat, thinking that they would sort of hibernate ( foolish considering he claimed to have fed them ). It sounds like this chap is highly upset and embarrassed over this but what I think is disturbing, is he mentions the constant hate e-mails and nasty texts constantly received by a few members here.
I suggested he mans up and replies to this thread, cop the criticism, explain himself and learn from this situation. I will point out that I actually know of this chap ( a friend of a friend of mine from Innisfail )but I didn't know about this incident with him until he rang us today.
It also sounds like the DEC were or are, considering charges but remember they will only proceed if their legal section thinks that there is any real chance of conviction. That would be difficult considering they would need a negative report from the vet I would think. The other thing is that the QLD wildlife act only allows for specific charges from which breach have to have occurred under such act. It could be that there isn't anything that neatly covers temporary dirty cages.
Personally I don’t think this chap would ever intentionally set out to cause his animals harm and in the past I believed he was a very passionate keeper so I am somewhat surprised that he has let this incident happen. One thing clear is it is certainly time for this chap to give up keeping I think. Becoming overwhelmed is poor excuse.

OK I have just a few words to say in response to this, then for me thats it.

Your first line is itself a bit over the top, I know that this person has taken snakes from the wild, he has told me hinself AND I have witnessed one instance where he had a snake bagged up in the car that he was taking out to re-release, possibly to spread diseases to wild populations from that cesspit.

Secondly you have only seen a handful of pictures, there are many many more and none of them give a true representation of seeing them first hand. The snakes were living in total filth and were severely underfed, the hatchlings were born in December and are still no larger than when they came out of the egg. I have seen a similiar aged snake that is 5 times their size. And besides the conditions of wild animals are irrelevant to this situation. Nothing more needs to be said on that obvious point. The vet had seen the snakes only after they had been cleaned and fed, she did not see them in the conditions that we saw them in. The vet told me that had she seen them in those conditions she would have ordered them to be removed immediately, but sadly she was constrained by only being able to report on what she saw first hand.

I dont believe this fellow fed these snakes before he went away. They were skinny as all frik and since we saw them only days after he left them and they DID NOT produce any scats in that time, and all the scats were very old and dry. The conditions they were kept in were unclean over a VERY long time, and in the time I have known him (since the start of this year) I know that he only fed the snakes ONCE!

In response his claims to have received hate mail from members here, since he hasnt been named and noone would know his email or phone number unless they were his friend (which I am embarrassed to admit I once was) I think thats dubious to say the least. I sent him a text a couple of days before he returned advising him of the action that I took in reporting him, to which he never replied, I called him a week later to speak with him about this and he insisted that he kept his snakes properly and saw no harm in what he had done before hanging up on me, and I finally sent him an email telling how I felt about him and his actions and included a link to this page so he could see that many other people considered his snake keeping appalling and cruel. Like I said nowhere has he been identified by Cameron or myself so I think this campaign of hatemail is imaginary and probably a diversion.

As for selling his collection, considering that he IS facing charges which could result in having his entire collection confiscated, I have to wonder about his motives for selling them now and whether or not there is an effort to recoup on an investment. From my discussions with the police officer involved the charges relate to failing to make provisions for animals under his care in his absence, not to 'temporary dirty cages' (besides which the word 'temporary' is redundant - this mess was long term!). The only thing that has saved him from prosecution under more serious cruelty charges is the farcical and incompetant handling of this case by Qld parks and wildlife, not to mention Camerons and my efforts to care for these snakes in his abscence. He owes us a debt of gratitude, but I doubt he has the insight to realise this.

The only good thing is that he does seem contrite for his actions and has finally realised (mostly due to the responses on here) that he cared for these animals poorly, and that the snakes may be rehomed to someone who will care for them properly. He claims to have been 'overwhelmed' and that this led to him loseing control of his husbandry, but it seems to me that he has always kept animals in that state and saw no harm in it and thought it was perfectly acceptable. Hopefully now he has realised the error of his ways he will never again subject any animal to that sort of treatment again, or so help me I will hunt him down.....

Enuff said!

Sean
 
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Oh and thanks to everyones support and to those who have offered help and assistance. Its much appreciated but unnecessary but I hope that people please direct their anger towards Queensland Parks and Wildlife and to their minister Vicki Darling. P&W seem to have squirmed their way out of this but if enough pressure is put on the government to tighten process and accountability then maybe we have made some headway...

Minister for Environment - Queensland Government Executive Directory

Click on the above link for the ministers contact details.

Thanks

Sean
 
Sean don’t you think that making accusations to the DEC that this chaps collection is in part is made up of illegally collected specimens because he once told you he had collected from the wild is taking a lot for granted?
I can only report what has been said to me and he tells me they are all captive bred.
I have of course no way of verifying anything ( nor the interest really ) therefore have simply accepted what he has told me on face value. If he hasn't been honest to me then I think he deserves what comes to him.
I did ask him to e-mail examples of the hate mail and so far he has failed to do so.
The relevance of the wild specimens’ condition comparison I would have thought was self explanatory.
A skinny snake does not necessarily mean it is close to death which is probably why the vet could not claim otherwise. You claim you fed the snakes and that why the vet viewed them in better health?
I can’t see the conditioning being that quick in such a small time frame, aren’t you talking a couple of weeks between feeding and a veterinary inspection?
Don’t get me wrong here, you and your mates did what was absolutely needed but I wonder whether
emotions haven’t over taken perspective?
 
maybe some sort of APS petition or somethign like that? lets casue as much of a ruckus as we can about this. so bs
 
Sean don’t you think that making accusations to the DEC that this chaps collection is in part is made up of illegally collected specimens because he once told you he had collected from the wild is taking a lot for granted?
I can only report what has been said to me and he tells me they are all captive bred.
I have of course no way of verifying anything ( nor the interest really ) therefore have simply accepted what he has told me on face value. If he hasn't been honest to me then I think he deserves what comes to him.
I did ask him to e-mail examples of the hate mail and so far he has failed to do so.
The relevance of the wild specimens’ condition comparison I would have thought was self explanatory.
A skinny snake does not necessarily mean it is close to death which is probably why the vet could not claim otherwise. You claim you fed the snakes and that why the vet viewed them in better health?
I can’t see the conditioning being that quick in such a small time frame, aren’t you talking a couple of weeks between feeding and a veterinary inspection?
Don’t get me wrong here, you and your mates did what was absolutely needed but I wonder whether
emotions haven’t over taken perspective?

Actually mate the 'accusations' made to DERM were more in the way of suspicions, its up to DERM and the authorities to prove whether or not those suspicions are correct or not, something that they will not likely do considering how little effort they have put into this so far! We had suspicions based on a number of factors which we shared with the officers taking our statements. Nothing wrong in that even if they were proven to have been captive bred. Taking snakes from the wild is illegal and irresponsible, he told me that he did it without any hesitation so do you really think its out of the realms of possibility that some of the large ordinary coastals stacked in tubs were not captive bred???

"The relevance of the wild specimens’ condition comparison I would have thought was self explanatory" Really? No its not and its totally irrelevant. A snake in poor condition in the wild has no bearing to a snake in captivity that is being kept in unholy conditions. Lets not venture any further into that one....

And the time frame between us feeding the snakes and the vets inspection was more than a couploe of weeks, it was over a month probably more like 5-6 weeks.

And yes I am emotional, I care for animals and I make no apologies for it. If I was cold and indifferent I would be too much like this bloke to give a stuff!
 
Sean
What was the time period between the time this chap went away and the time that you and your mates saw these critters for the first time?
 
Sean
What was the time period between the time this chap went away and the time that you and your mates saw these critters for the first time?


I dont believe this fellow fed these snakes before he went away. They were skinny as all frik and since we saw them only days after he left them and they DID NOT produce any scats in that time, and all the scats were very old and dry. The conditions they were kept in were unclean over a VERY long time, and in the time I have known him (since the start of this year) I know that he only fed the snakes ONCE!

Sean

quoted from seans reply on the last page
 
wont the proof or where the snakes came from be in the log book?, i was under the impression that ANY reptile aquired had to be logged complete with info on where when who how it was aquired ...but personally as long as the person has the snakes removed into care suitable for them and he has his licence removed andnot allowed i hope this ends soon so everyone can take a step back and clam down and be the nice ladies and gents we sometimes hide :)
 
If your mate really wanted to make this right, he would front up with pictures of the snakes now in better health. Also with 45+ jungles he should post on here so the conserned people here can help find responsible owners. This 'chap' is as full of hot air as the terrible authorities that claim to police these kinds of neglect.
 
He would be best advised to front up here and see if he can't find a few willing customers despite the obvious ear bashing he will surely recieve.
There has been a few very well known reptile keepers that are members on this site that have in the past been completely over whelmed with a collection too big for current personal issues e.g depression, marriage break ups, loss of job, sickness etc.
I know it doesn't mean these things are any real excuse for poor husbandry ( as they could have made a plea for help ) but it may give a few an idea of how people can come un stuck.
Fair enough, but he went on HOLIDAYS!! He wasnt sick, or depressed or going through a break up. That is not an acceptable excuse.
 
Well a brief update, but I dare say Cam will have more to say on this...

The guy seems to have left town yesterday and we have no idea where he has gone. Cam went and visited him yesterday morning to pick up the money he owes him and to have a look at the snakes. He still had the snakes on the premises (in the same unclean enclosures) but claims to have sold them all in one lot, except for some of the larger coastals and wouldnt agree to letting Cam have a pick of any of the snakes. He also claimed not to have any cash on him when Cam visited in the morning but agreed to have it ready for him in the afternoon and made an agreement for Cam to come around after uni. When Cam returned the bloke had cleared out, the house was empty no sign of the snakes or the money he owes Cam...

So that really just confirms what a gutless and worthless individual this person is, I wouldnt trust a word he says to anyone. I wonder if the Qld police or parks and Wildlife have any idea about this latest development, I might have to make a couple of calls.

I hope Mother Karma has a surprise in store for him...
 
well, didnt think my opinion of this guy could get any lower, but it has,...

lower than a snakes belly,.... :(
 
Just so every body knows - I have PERSONALLY found GOOD homes for ALL of these animals in question ! The person in question no longer keeps animals and probably will never keep reptiles again. There is a case still pending against him, he know's he has f#*^_d up and he is going to face the music ! I am not happy about what has happened as some of those animals where animals that I have bred myself, that's why I have intervened ! BUT I can personally assure everyone concerned about the welfare of these animals, they now are in the care of very dedicated & experienced keepers !

cheers
Mark

Colin, this thread should be closed mate...
 
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thats great to hear but why was he such a douch bag and skip on the money he owed and even though he was bailing still couldnt pass along one of the many he had to a bloke who obviously cared about them.
 
pharskie, I don't know anything about this guy owing anybody anything ? It is not my concern & I will not get involved as it has nothing to do with me. The welfare of the animals on the other hand was paramount, that's why I intervened... and that is all I have to say about it.

cheers
Mark
 
Just so every body knows - I have PERSONALLY found GOOD homes for ALL of these animals in question ! The person in question no longer keeps animals and probably will never keep reptiles again. There is a case still pending against him, he know's he has f#*^_d up and he is going to face the music ! I am not happy about what has happened as some of those animals where animals that I have bred myself, that's why I have intervened ! BUT I can personally assure everyone concerned about the welfare of these animals, they now are in the care of very dedicated & experienced keepers !

cheers
Mark

Colin, this thread should be closed mate...

Mark thanks for that info.

All we wanted was for these snakes to be cared for, even though it took a lot of effort and frustration along the way the only outcome we ever really hoped for was for these snakes to live in good conditions. Thats happened now it seems, Im satisfied with that.

Thanks to everyone who took an interest in the snakes welfare and to the people who intervened and helped rehome the snakes, its much appreciated.

Sean

Just a final update, the fellow concerned has now finalised his debt and thanked Cam and I for our intervention. The snakes are in a good home.

The matter is now concluded.

Thanks

Sean
 
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I find the RSPCA to be hypocrits......."for all creatures great and small"..............pffft yeah right
 
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