Cane toads threaten iconic king brown snake

Discussion in 'Reptile News' started by AirCooled, May 26, 2011.

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  1. jinjajoe

    jinjajoe Very Well-Known Member

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    Mate, I am a Pom who when living in England collected & adored the common Toad (different to the Cane Toad) but similar in looks...... In England it was considered a blessing to have Toads (similar to the Green Tree Frog) as they controlled insects etc & they are indeed beautiful animals.

    Now I live in Queensland & there are literally hundreds of Toads in every single back yard throughout the entire state not to mention those in the bush...... they are in plague proportions. I still like Toads but they need to be eradicated...... mindless killing is still in principle, as described completely mindless. You would understand the QLD mentality more if they were in every Rockingham Yard & native Fauna of your own were being destroyed.

    However there is an in-humane 'destroy the toad' attitude in QLD which is somewhat red-neck & I am frowned at when I say they are a beautiful animal.... but some kind of humane destruction is desperately required nonetheless.......

    I'd love to find an answer............

     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  2. Elapidae1

    Elapidae1 Very Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you Jinjajoe, I never said they weren't a problem, LOL
     
  3. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    Everyone has their own morals within the laws. I accept yours as not giving a bugger towards the conservation of our native wildlife. I hope that you can forgive me for every cane toad or feral cat that i kill as I think that I am doing Australian wildlife & our children a favour.

    Cheers
    Ian.
     
  4. Elapidae1

    Elapidae1 Very Well-Known Member

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    lol, You have amazing powers of insight into my moral standards. I think you'll find lining up toad with a golf club is actually illegal regardless of your own moral stance.
     
  5. GeckPhotographer

    GeckPhotographer Very Well-Known Member

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    To others reading my reply my original post was in regard to it being possible to control toads using daughter-less male concept. This is the same technology as is being looked into in carp. A gene is switched on in captive laboratory bred toads which means whenever they breed they produce only male toads, whenever those males breed they produce only males. This technology in theory could drastically curb or even eradicate toad population. So what is the problem, to put this technology into effect, thousands or tens of thousands maybe even hundreds of thousands (I have no idea on the actual number needed) of toads would have to be released and the idea of releasing more toads even if beneficial is not a pleasant one.


    In regard to the 'debate' going on about the necessity to eliminate toads I have two points. The first being that we must take a mentality of if there is evidence to suggest anything could go wrong we should stop it. We should not wait until an animal becomes extinct from a toad before we do something to control numbers. I mean do you think we should because if you do it is honestly ridiculous?
    Secondly is a a problem I have with 'toad wacking', a problem that truly has little to do with cane toads. As a frog biologist it is not uncommon for my father to get emails asking "is this a toad" (even in Newcastle) and sometimes that the person put it in their freezer just in case. I have yet to see a time the frog was not that a frog, not even uncommonly that it is the endangered species Mixophyes iteratus. We must have extreme caution in how we go about the elimination of toads by 'uneducated' members of the public least it have an adverse effect on native frogs.
     
  6. Elapidae1

    Elapidae1 Very Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, have they actually switched this gene on in the toads?
    If the question re waiting on extinction first was aimed at me, of course I don't think this. I was just winding up redneck toad wackers, who as you pointed out probably do or at least unwittingly encourage more damage to native frogs than the toads themselves.

    Would you release the toads?
     
  7. MR_IAN_DAVO

    MR_IAN_DAVO Well-Known Member

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    Sorry,
    I did not think that there was an uneducated way to get rid of canetoads.
    I am sorry if my posts offended you at all or anyone else, BUT you really need to take a look at what is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    NO BULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Get out in the field & have a look!
    It is too late now for QLD but look elswhere if you are FAIR DINMKUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. GeckPhotographer

    GeckPhotographer Very Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if that is aimed at me. If it is I support toads in Aus need to be eliminated, I have seen just how bad they can be in parts of NT. And in reply to the above post yes I would release the toads. My problem is simply the people going around wacking whatever they think looks like a toad and getting a bunch of Aussie frogs in the process. I will answer the bit about whether the gene has been turned on yet in a minute am busy right now.
     
  9. Nagraj

    Nagraj Well-Known Member

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    Debunking Myths about Cane Toad Impact
    "
    Myth # 2

    Toads have caused the extinction of many native Australian species

    The truth is, no Australian species is known or even suspected to have gone extinct as a result of cane toads. ............
     
  10. Nagraj

    Nagraj Well-Known Member

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    Myth # 4

    Toads are wiping out native frogs

    Common sense says that frogs will be in real trouble when toads arrive – but they aren’t. Although toads do compete with frogs for food, and do sometimes eat frogs, the number of frogs doesn’t go down when the toads arrive.
     
  11. GeckPhotographer

    GeckPhotographer Very Well-Known Member

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    Ok in reference to how proved daughter-less male technology is. The gene in toads responsible for this has been isolated, multiple copies can be inserted and the toad would only produce male offspring. The untested part is based on that the gene has more effect than just on gender it also has effects in the brain of the toad and such and what these effects are is still untested.
     
  12. GeckPhotographer

    GeckPhotographer Very Well-Known Member

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    Debunking Debunked Myth 4. To get money to study whether frog numbers have declined from toads scientists must first get evidence to suggest from numbers have declined thus leaving a paradox where no data exists. However plenty of anecdotal evidence does suggest decline in frog numbers in areas where toads resides in high numbers.
     
  13. Nagraj

    Nagraj Well-Known Member

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    The plural of anecdote is not data


    If you read the link provided you will see that several studies have been carried out.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  14. Nagraj

    Nagraj Well-Known Member

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    Available at your local hardware store. If you continue to use brutal killing methods now that you know this humane product exists you are no better than the cane toads themselves.

    HopStop®

    [​IMG] HopStop® spray is a convenient and effective way to control cane toads. When used properly, it’s safe for people and pets, and is humane for the toads. HopStop® has been developed for use in home gardens and similar outdoor settings.
     
  15. CamdeJong

    CamdeJong Well-Known Member

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    I missed the part where I used the word "extinct". Seems like this thread has become entrenched in flogging vs freezing and some of us who never endorsed inhumane measures in the first place are being debunked on this premise - I bag and freeze toads and remove eggs from my dam, my only argument here is that they pose a serious threat to native fauna.
     
  16. $NaKe PiMp

    $NaKe PiMp Very Well-Known Member

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    i asked this exact question to the principal investigator in cane toad research Rick Shine and he said there has been no animal species made extinct from the presence of cane toads that they know of
     
  17. fugawi

    fugawi Well-Known Member

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    Yet..................
     
  18. fugawi

    fugawi Well-Known Member

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    Take the BHPs, as adults they don't eat frogs or toads but the young do, so when the toads turn up in small numbers at first, the adults will be fine, then the BHPs breed and some young die from toads, some survive. After a couple of breeding seasons, toads increase, higher numbers of BHP babies die until finally all the young die. Adult BHPs continue to breed but their young die. This can go on for 20yrs or so after the maybe 10 yrs of some of the young making it to maturity until finally you get LOCALISED extinction. So to say NO extinctions is really a bit of a play on words. RBBs could be completely wiped out of QLD, but because of the ones in NSW and VIC, they will not be extinct.

    So when they say "No extinctions from cane toads" you must add YET.
     
  19. saratoga

    saratoga Well-Known Member

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    Black Headed Pythons are one animal that appears to have benefited from the toads, at least in Kakadu. In one area of Kakadu where I lived for many years BHP's were only seen occasionally. Now they are one of the most common snakes there! I would imagine they have benefited on two fronts; one from having another major snake eater disappear (the King Brown), and the other from the HUGE decline in the population of Varanus panoptes which I would assume would have dug up their eggs and fed on younger snakes.

    Fugawi is spot on about localised extinctions and I'm sure this is happening with some animals affected by the toads. The animals won't be considered extinct until they have disappeared from their whole range!

    Since the toads arrived in Kakadu there have been HUGE declines in the numbers of King Browns, Adders, Olive Pythons, Water Pythons, Frillies, Monitors, Blue tongues. Sure this is all anecdotal and is not based on scientific experimentation, but Kakadu today is a very different place to what it was 10 years ago in terms of the relative abundance of many species. I would attribute this to toads, however there are also other factors to consider ... at the top of that list would be the crippling fire regimes in the park. We also are yet to understand why populations of mammals in the Top End are crashing at an extraordinary rate.

    NB The name King Brown is a much better name than Mulga Snake when referring to these snakes in the Top End. They really are a king-sized brown coloured snakes....the largest in Australia...reaching 3m and as thick as your arm with scales the size of fingernails! Further there is no "mulga" occurring in the Top End
     
  20. $NaKe PiMp

    $NaKe PiMp Very Well-Known Member

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    we cant rely on anecdotal information,some good news is while i was researching on black snakes i came across accounts in papers of Queensland Pseudechis porphyriacus populations have not shown major signs of decrease even in the most toad affected areas,and there was evidence of evolved responses already in the short time since 1935,which is fewer than 23 snake generations.

    Toads are easily seen by most people as the biggest pest that ever existed cause they are so visible to everyone,However,there are much worse threats from more devastating habitat destruction and other feral animals like cats/foxes which are scientifically known to have caused extinctions already.
    Those factors have been around alot longer so Toads could still very well lead to some extinctions.
    Its sad to see these big NT Kingbrowns disappear,heres a picture of two beauties i got to play with

    [​IMG]
     
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