Rock Python

[Slickturtle]

Hi Kirsty

I would love to hear if your position on crocs is the same as mine or just some parallel reflection. Well I am feeling bullet proof tonight so I will post my submission here for all to read.

Only problem is that I will read the reaction when I am feeling old and weak in the morning!!

Here it is.

Cheers

I'd love to hear your argument on this, too! I tried to argue this same thing a couple of times with TWSers - not a happy ending

 

[longirostris]

Hi Pythoninfinite,

Your meetings with CALM sound very interesting. I know of several individuals over that way who participated in those discussions you are referring to. You may very well be one of them. People like Brian Bush, Brad Maryan, Rob Browne-Cooper and others I believed worked tirelessly for many years just to get the limited private keeping scenario you have over there today.

You are all to be congratulated on your perserverance and tenacity in never giving up and forcing CALM to allow some private keeping.

The attitude you openly encountered with CALM officials exists in every state wildlife authority unfortunately, its just that some are not quite so blatant as to make open comments of ridicaule about private herpers.

I have experience with DECCW in Victoria and NPWS in NSW and both organisations have members of staff particularly enforcement officials who demonstrate elitist attitudes towards private keepers.

My issue is with the ridiculous situation that exists where a researcher or even Government run wildlife facility is given a take from the wild permit that states captive bred progeny that may result from intended research or captive husbandry cannot be sold or transferred to private keepers.

I recently had several communications with a researcher at a University in Melbourne who had a large number (60-70) of a particular species of dragon lizard that is not available to private keepers anywhere in Australia. It is a species that demonstrates a suitability to captive husbandry, (it has been bred many times by the researcher and has also been bred and held at a government owned wildlife park elsewhere for more then 10 years), yet I was told that the original collect permit conditions included a clause not allowing any progeny or excess animals to go to private keepers.

The animals have since been moved on to 3 other universities around Australia with the majority (90%) going to one university for additional research involving further breeding. I have contacted the Professor running this research program at the university on several occassions over the past several months and have been completely ignored. What happens to all these animals when the research is over? Well in the case of the Wildlife Park who has these animals and has been breeding them for 10 years I am told by a well placed individual within the system that the animals will be taken off display and allowed to live their lives out but no further breeding will take place. Effectively these animals are being allowed to die out in captivity because of the sheer stupidity of the authorities.

This is not about money. I am a dragon keeper for goodness sake. Any body who keeps dragons knows there is no money in dragons. You do it because you love it, you do it because you are passionate about it. You spend 10 times more then you can ever make. Try replacing 100 odd mercury vapour lights every 12 months or paying electricity bills that are approaching $8,000 per annum just for your collection with the proceeds from selling dragon progeny.

As I have mentioned in earlier posts there are ways around this for private keepers, both in NSW and Victoria. The easiest and quickest way is to become a wildlife demonstrator. A wildlife demonstrator can get access to animals that private keepers cannot. This is in spite of the fact that most demonstrators keep a wide cross section of animals from many different families of reptiles and would not be expected to and generally do not have the same expertise or knowledge as someone who specialises in one family of reptiles. This is not a criticism of wildlife demonstrators, far from it, this is a critism of the state bodies that regulated and continue to enforce a ridiculous system that has seen a profusion of wildife demonstrator licenses handed out in NSW and Victoria, that really exist only to enable holders to keep species they would otherwise not have access to.

At least in NSW if you can demonstrate that the species you are proposing to bring in to the state has been bred in Captivity or even wild caught via a legal collect permit they will give you permission to keep it, even if the species is not on the wildlife keepers schedules/lists.

This ridiculous situation that precludes holders of collect permits from selling on animals that have been bred from the collected individuals to private keepers has to be addressed. It is ridiculous. I know of 2 dragon species (currently held by government and quasi government institutions) as I write this that are in danger of disappearing from captivity (one species demise I believe is iminent).

I am sorry for the long winded nature of this post, but I see this issue as a major hurdle to any more liberal activity discussed here such as the collection of oenpelli pythons for conservation purposes. With attitudes that myself and others including python infinite have described existing at state authority level and even amongst ousrselves as others have correctly pointed out, I fear for the welfare of our interest but more importantly for the welfare of animals that have any susseptibility to the perils of their environment whether they be man made or natural.

 

[Southside Morelia]

In MY experience dealing with Government Contracts everyday with our Business, whether it be Housing NSW or Dept of Commerce and reading what has been posted, it seems ALL these Government facilities have the same in trenched and institutionalized way of thinking. In their eyes, its too hard "and expensive" to change!!!
We as Tax payers, have the right to question this way of thinking as we pay their salaries, its time to change and I feel it can be done, no problem!
"Publicity and media exposure" is the key to this being a success and without that tool, trying to lobby the Bureaucrats with letters that no one (the Public) will ever hear about, will never work and has been proven by previous posts from the key posters.

LOL longirostris, mate it's definitely not about money, its ALL about the love of the hobby and the animals, we all agree with you there!
On a lighter note, my Company installs Solar PV installations in Schools, Businesses and the Private Sector, which are ALL subsidized by the Government and rebated acordingly to make it attractive... I will unveil a plain using this concept for "US HERPERS" in the future to save "us" some money having to fork out for the astronomical electrical bills most of us pay each and every year!
Stay tuned kiddies....

 

[Pythoninfinite]

Thanks for the reply longirostris, it finally boiled down to me, Simon Ball and Mike Lynch for the last couple of years - the others you mention started the process, but were worn down by CALM over a very long period of time. That's the usual strategy for government officials - ignore and don't become involved... and the problem will most likely go away. The only reason we succeeded eventually was to canvass the support of both the Environment Minister, and her counterpart at the time - once the bureaucrats start getting Ministerials, they begin to take things seriously. They HAVE to deal with them, and they have to get it right, and sometimes it takes a lot of time. These guys are not suddenly going to become all warm & fuzzy, and embrace a new way of thinking, without considerable pressure from their political masters. At this point in time, it's much more about the exercise of power, and not being seen to lose face, regardless of the logic of the argument they are confronted with. It's definitely not about logic.

As a community, we do need to be far more politically active, and we need access to good legal advice, but above all we need to be persistent. We are now a large group in the Australian community, and growing, and we need to figure out how to harness the latent energy and voting power of that group.

Jamie.

 

[cement]

As a community, we do need to be far more politically active, and we need access to good legal advice, but above all we need to be persistent. We are now a large group in the Australian community, and growing, and we need to figure out how to harness the latent energy and voting power of that group.

Jamie.

Hey Jamie, its looking like the Greens may end up with the balance of power after this next election. They might be worth a thought or two considering it was them I think who helped the AHS with the surveys at Homebush brickyards during the building of the olympics because of the bell frog, putting a stop to work so they could get surveys done on the natives.

 

[Snakeluvver2]

bump.

Any more news??? Or views, ideas, plans. Anything???