Trangender/ freaks? Too young?

[user 13028]

What an amazing thread. I hope it stays open.
I had a friend in primary school who I knew until my early teens. He was very feminine, would pretend to were dresses, sing in a very girly sort of way, blah blah blah. The next time I saw him I must of been pushing 20yo and he had a girl friend etc.

This part i agree with too because i we must remember that nothing like this is set in stone.

to tell an old (and childish) story"

In my early years of highschool (years 7-9) i had a female friend who had an obsession with negro men. to the extent that she wanted to be one; even gave herself a new name and was always remarking about 'how much of a man she was'.
This went in until about the age of 13? and she just... stopped... got a boyfriend, and we called her by her first name again...
For 2 full years, she was called by and pretended to be, a man.

I'm guesing she was influenced by two of her cousins who were both very open about being lesbian - but at that point, she thought she was ugly and would and feel much better as a man. desperately so.

i haven't managed to express the story in the manner i wished... and there was a morale to the story; along the lines of 'children aren't always set in their ways and change their minds'...



NB i may edit this when i re-read it again because the expression is flawed...


in reply to daniel1234
i agree - i really hope this thread stays open too. this means people have to maintain a civil and accepting facade when it comes to other peoples opinions. If you have to disagree please do it nicely.

 

[LullabyLizard]

Originally posted by HORSERULE

This is why people dislike gay people or gay supporters because if you say you dont agree with there choice in lifestyle and im sorry i do believe it is a choice, then are you branded a bigot or a racist or god knows what else

Originally posted by HORSERULE

I should add that some scientific studies have found in gay men certain chemicals in the brain are at higher levels than hetro sexual men. This clearly indicates there is something physiological going on.

This contradicts itself

 

[waruikazi]

I love the arguments going on and as much as i hate Horsesrule's opinions without them there's no way this thread would have gone so far with so many people contributing. You can get as heated as you want but keep it civil. This is definitely a topic that invokes alot of passion.

I read somewhere that only 20% of trans children grow upto be trans adults, the study didn't show how many trans adults were trans children though. From that stat i think it's dangerous for surgical or medical procedures be to be undertaken at such a young age but i also think that parents supporting their trans children can be nothing but a good thing. Atleast then if it is a phase that they will grow out of they will have had the chance to 'try' it in a supportive environment and know for sure if it is what they truly are. Rather than suppressing their feelings of confusion and self hate and never knowing for sure.

Edit: That stat was from Dr. Phil, he's very pro-family in a religious values ideology. So i think it could be flawed and we all know you can fudge stats to say what you want them too.

 

[horsesrule]

Originally posted by HORSERULE

Originally posted by HORSERULE



This contradicts itself

Not at all they can choose to get medical treatment including psychological treatment.

 

[horsesrule]

I do have old school beliefs and i also some fundamental religeous beliefs however i should state i am not religeous and i dont go to church or worship and never have.

On morals issues i take a very conservative stand.

On most social issues (unless there moral) i take a very very far left stand.

I will say again like i have said numerous times before. What consenting adults choose to do is completely up to them. I DONT CARE.

However because i dont care what they do doesnt mean i dont have an oppinion and i do have one. That is i dont understand how they can live like that and i dont agree.



This thread is about children if children are raised to believe these kinds of things are normal and healthy i can see us having many more of these cross dressing kids in the future.

Lets keep this in perspective there kids let them be kids.

If a boy is being dressed in girls dresses something is wrong with the parents.

This is NOT NORMAL and this is not healthy.

This is completely not rational nor acceptable to the majority of society.

 

[English]

Not at all they can choose to get medical treatment including psychological treatment.

that takes me back to my original response to that notion you put forward... because someone has a physiological difference it does not mean that they can be treated to correct such and nor should they..

with regards to religion - christianity for example - this was created by disciples not by 'jesus' - it was after his death that christianity was given rise hence why the bible is written in such ways - jesus himself was just a man that preached about doing to others as you wish to have done to yourself and he was the man who supported the massive jewish poor community... the story goes on...

you can't generalise in your responses and yes you are entitled to hold an opinon and others are entitled to challenge and debate that - just as someone is entitled to dress, look and act differently without discrimination.

the act that you state is not normal is one that has been written in laws created by white upper and middle class men to control their positions in society over the last thousand or so years... it is a notion that you have been raised to believe in not normal but has been happening within societies all over the world since the start of time.

if you feel it is not normal then i suggest you keep that to yourself like you have requested that GL&T people keep their thoughts to themselves.

see how it works all ways?

 

[waruikazi]

I just can't understand how people find others who are openly different to the norm, particularly with regards to sexuality and gender, so offensive and threatening.

 

[English]

This thread is about children if children are raised to believe these kinds of things are normal and healthy i can see us having many more of these cross dressing kids in the future.

again if it hurts no one who really cares?

a co worker has a young boy who wanted and would only respond to 'kelly' for about 3 months because he wanted to be a girl - she went with it he is now back to being a boy... but if it was something that continued then she would have supported it because she would only want what her child wanted and for that child to be true to themselves regardless of societies values... which do change over time...

it was only 40 years ago that slavery exsisted in the states... and now they have a black president... all never believed would happen or should at some stage in time and now welcomed as a positive in the progression of humanity...

just my couple of bob now i am out for coffee with my gay and transgender friends and their kids!!

OUCH heaven forbid - I got this feeling that i am gonna come back liking men and wanting a fanny... i do like frocks though so half way there!

 

[Clairebear]

If being gay / transgender is a choice, why is there such a high rate of suicide amoungst these categories (esp rural areas where these kids hide it from their parents and friends and try to live a lie). If anyone finds it offensive to be around two gay people, do you believe they should therefore not leave their house, and stay at home cause that's where they belong. What if two gay people find the straight lifestyle offensive. Does that mean all their straight friends can't bring their partners or kids over. Who is to say what is right and wrong in the world. There's no real rules (apart from man made ones). Nature doesn't lay us down with a 'how to' guide.

And we all know weird things happen in the development of lots of babies (resulting in lots of consequences). If a little boy is as insistent as Jazz was that she wants to be a girl (she was depressed as a boy... a young child DEPRESSED being made to be a boy...) then it's best for the parents to make their child happy.

Don't mean to offend anyone just wanted to have my own say... might as well everyone else has.

 

[Vat69]

This thread is about children if children are raised to believe these kinds of things are normal and healthy i can see us having many more of these cross dressing kids in the future.

Lets keep this in perspective there kids let them be kids.

If a boy is being dressed in girls dresses something is wrong with the parents.

This is NOT NORMAL and this is not healthy.

This is completely not rational nor acceptable to the majority of society.

It's general knowledge that gender roles are socially constructed and have no real grounding nature. Having this in mind why is it a negative to dress boys in dresses? Why should only females where dresses? It's cloth covering the body. Society gives meaning to this cloth, meaning it needn't have. Negative opinions such as yours reproduce and reinforce these meanings and if everyone stopped teaching their children that only girls wear certain types of clothing and for a boy to wear it is wrong, then the next generation wouldn't have this problem.

Saying that only humans with one set of chromosomes can only wear clothing assigned to them is akin to saying those same humans should be relegated to a life of housekeeping (for example) as determined by their genetics.

You seem to believe that gender roles are some kind of natural thruth which is not at all the case. 'Normal' is relative, thus you cannot deem not-normal as not-healthy in this case. Ideas about gender are fluid and are continuously changing as society changes.

As it happens I am writing my Honours thesis on gender and if you're interested in expanding your knowledge on the subject, or even just learning more about where your own ideas have originated from I could certainly point you in the direction of some very interesting research.
Your views are very much reflected in 17th and 18th century English gender thinking. You weren't wrong when you said you were traditional!


*Recharge, I couldn't help myself

 

[Recharge]

hahaha vat, that's ok, I'm a terribly bad influence all round

though I can feel the futility with horsesrule, not willing to answer any of our queries or much of anything, it's total finger in ear stuff.. oh well, one can only try I guess

 

[Freeloader]

Aren't you supposed to love your kids no matter what????????????????

 

[ajwill]

I play footy....

:lol:

You so do! And look mighty fine doing it!

I agree with so much of what has been said here - children are the most precious tasks we will ever be given and no parent, friend, relative or internet chat participant has the right to judge these parents for supporting their children.

Gender and sexuality are individual decisions and no-one can ever really claim to know the inside of another's reality.

I have a thirteen year old son and would be proud if he was confident and capable enough to ask these questions of himself.

 

[ajwill]

I don't suppose you know how old they were when they knew they were trans? That's the thing that i find so intriguing about this story, how young these kids are and how young they were when they first started to show this kind of behaviour.

I have a friend whose in her 60s and whose refurbished waterworks are one year older than me - she claims she knew before she started school. Started saving for her surgery with her first job at 16.

 

[llasher]

I do have old school beliefs and i also some fundamental religeous beliefs however i should state i am not religeous and i dont go to church or worship and never have.

On morals issues i take a very conservative stand.

You don't say

However because i dont care what they do doesnt mean i dont have an oppinion and i do have one. That is i dont understand how they can live like that and i dont agree.

No doubt the gay and lesbian community is very troubled by this news.

This is NOT NORMAL and this is not healthy.

This is completely not rational nor acceptable to the majority of society.

As usual the religious right assumes everyone agrees with them. Also the "oppinion" (sic) always involves foisting those views on others. When did you become the arbiter of what is and isn't "normal"?

Actually the majority of society are quite comfortable with the same sex relationships, its just that our last prime minister wasn't. Check any survey on the subject. I'm not aware of any strong views on boys wearing frocks but maybe you know of some public opinion research. What we do know is that same sex couples make fine parents, something the moral police have yet to accept

By the way, if kids weren't allowed to cross dress we would have no Boy George, RuPaul (look him up) or Danny LaRue (ditto). What a world we would live in

 

[the.badger]

Hahah, OH NOES, a world without Boy George! Hahaha, a fate worse than death. Gosh he was terrible.

 

[llasher]

Hahah, OH NOES, a world without Boy George! Hahaha, a fate worse than death. Gosh he was terrible.

Are you crazy? Karma Chameleon was a masterpiece. He married his drummer. Plus he inspired a generation of boys and girls to wear hats, long coats and black nail polish in a non threatening androgynous manner. The Cure, Dead or Alive, Divine: the 80s, were great times to be alive, dragged up and free.

 

[the.badger]

Are you crazy? Karma Chameleon was a masterpiece. He married his drummer. Plus he inspired a generation of boys and girls to wear hats, long coats and black nail polish in a non threatening androgynous manner. The Cure, Dead or Alive, Divine: the 80s, were great times to be alive, dragged up and free.

Hahahah you're really showing your age now!

Although I do like hats...

 

[Lozza]

i think all this hate and despise against Alternatives was originally sparked by religions (no offense anybody) because of there narrow minded views on things and that has really changed the world i really think this world would be a better place without religion.

Exactly- BC it was perfectly acceptable in Greece, Rome etc for males to engage in sexual activities with other men

Maybe we only do it in Darwin? It's a global thing but maybe it wasn't introduced before we left school.

We do Harmony day at school here in NSW. We also run a few different "values and equity" type programs dealing with acceptance and friendship regardless of race, gender, religion, wealth, sexuality, disability etc etc.
There is nothing wrong with being different - everybody is different. If we weren't we would all be clones and wiped out by a single virus :lol:

I think its great for parents to be so supportive of their children. As the parents said "We don't encourage, we support. And we just keep listening to what she tells us." They aren't pushing the kid - they are just listening and supporting them, which imo is the best thing they can do.
I agree that surgery shouldn't be considered until they are 18 though and supressive hormones used instead until they are old enough to make an informed decision.

 

[jessb]

By the way, if kids weren't allowed to cross dress we would have no Boy George, RuPaul (look him up) or Danny LaRue (ditto). What a world we would live in

No Eddie Izzard, no Some Like It Hot, no Dame Edna...