2 diamond clutches
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zen
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G'day Zulu,
Thanks for the pics to illustrate how similar they are.
It's no wonder Stefano thought Serps were Wisemans. :?
Is the second one the Wollongong specimen?
Thanks for the pics to illustrate how similar they are.
It's no wonder Stefano thought Serps were Wisemans. :?
Is the second one the Wollongong specimen?
serpenttongue
Very Well-Known Member
Johno, i have had a diamond breed in consecutive years but i dont recommend it. It takes a lot out of the animal and leaves them in such a ruined state. As Zen said, wild females most likely breed every 2 or 3 years and i think thats the way it should be for captives too. They need time to put their weight back on and gain back their strength. One of the females in this thread also laid eggs last year too, so i wasnt expecting any from her this year. I must say though, it is amazing what they're capable of and i've learnt never to underestimate them.
The adults in this thread are pure Wollongong diamonds that i bred in 1997 and are descendants of wildcaught adults collected from the same area of the Illawarra escarpment back in the late 1980's.
Zulu's pics look typical of Wollongong juveniles(even though one isnt) but you can find all the variations of diamond patterning and colouration in any diamond population all down the south coast. I have hatched out high golds from black and white adults from Wollongong.
Oh, and all heil Lord Serpent :twisted: :twisted: :lol:
The adults in this thread are pure Wollongong diamonds that i bred in 1997 and are descendants of wildcaught adults collected from the same area of the Illawarra escarpment back in the late 1980's.
Zulu's pics look typical of Wollongong juveniles(even though one isnt) but you can find all the variations of diamond patterning and colouration in any diamond population all down the south coast. I have hatched out high golds from black and white adults from Wollongong.
Oh, and all heil Lord Serpent :twisted: :twisted: :lol:
re 2
Bottom pic i posted of the wollongong one is aabout typical of the illawarra spilota,i have found some that were predominantly yellow or orange type color in the illawarra as well as most morphs exhibiting lines on the sides and some banding,yellow spots or white spots and large or small rosettes etc. On average the types from wisemans are more yellowish and it can be seen in the clutches of each when compared,when i did get the odd specimen from the wollongong area that wasw yellow it was a little howler!
Bottom pic i posted of the wollongong one is aabout typical of the illawarra spilota,i have found some that were predominantly yellow or orange type color in the illawarra as well as most morphs exhibiting lines on the sides and some banding,yellow spots or white spots and large or small rosettes etc. On average the types from wisemans are more yellowish and it can be seen in the clutches of each when compared,when i did get the odd specimen from the wollongong area that wasw yellow it was a little howler!
Z
zen
Guest
Thanks Zulu.
The Wollongong (Illawarra) spec in the bottom pic has smaller rosettes than the Wiseman's Ferry (Central Coast) specimen.
I've observed this tendency, of slightly larger rosettes in the Central Coast specimens when compared to the Illawarras. Of course there's always exceptions to this, as you said.
You also said:-
I've never seen one with "orange type colour though. :shock:
Do you have any pics of the orange one's?
I've seen all the other varieties though. Pugsly's even got one with both yellow & white rosettes (he had a pic of it up in 'Diamond Fanatics' thread).
Individuals with some vague banding look great too. Although I've only seen one of them though.
Someone once said that Diamonds Pythons with anterior lateral stripes weren't pure. This is definitely not true, as you confirm here when you say "morphs exhibiting lines on the sides".
I've also seen wild specimens in the remote wilderness of the Blue Mountains that have anterior lateral "pinstripes" starting on the lower neck & extending back several inches. They looked great and were definitely pure Diamonds.
Lord Serpent :wink:,
You said:-
You're females that laid eggs in consecutive years is most unusual for Diamonds. Makes sense when it takes so much out of them as you said.
So yours are pure Illawarra bloodline. 8) They're lovely specimens you have there. Such clean, tight, little regular rosettes.
It's very interesting what you said about variation:-
It's no wonder when you have such variation within the same clutch, even with a single father, let alone the orgies that they have.
I've got a theory that throwbacks occur in litters occasionally when both parents are carrying genes from way back for particular traits or colours.
Hail Lord Serpent :lol:
zen
The Wollongong (Illawarra) spec in the bottom pic has smaller rosettes than the Wiseman's Ferry (Central Coast) specimen.
I've observed this tendency, of slightly larger rosettes in the Central Coast specimens when compared to the Illawarras. Of course there's always exceptions to this, as you said.
You also said:-
I've never seen one with "orange type colour though. :shock:
Do you have any pics of the orange one's?
I've seen all the other varieties though. Pugsly's even got one with both yellow & white rosettes (he had a pic of it up in 'Diamond Fanatics' thread).
Individuals with some vague banding look great too. Although I've only seen one of them though.
Someone once said that Diamonds Pythons with anterior lateral stripes weren't pure. This is definitely not true, as you confirm here when you say "morphs exhibiting lines on the sides".
I've also seen wild specimens in the remote wilderness of the Blue Mountains that have anterior lateral "pinstripes" starting on the lower neck & extending back several inches. They looked great and were definitely pure Diamonds.
Lord Serpent :wink:,
You said:-
If I may, with all due respect, say that I can only see one female of yours in this thread (the one with the eggs in the initial sequence). Correct me if I'm wrong :?. I was just wondering if the female pictured on the eggs, was the specimen that laid last year as well :?: .
You're females that laid eggs in consecutive years is most unusual for Diamonds. Makes sense when it takes so much out of them as you said.
Quite amazing that you had 2 females lay in consecutive years!
So yours are pure Illawarra bloodline. 8) They're lovely specimens you have there. Such clean, tight, little regular rosettes.
It's very interesting what you said about variation:-
.
It's no wonder when you have such variation within the same clutch, even with a single father, let alone the orgies that they have.
I've got a theory that throwbacks occur in litters occasionally when both parents are carrying genes from way back for particular traits or colours.
Hail Lord Serpent :lol:
zen
serpenttongue
Very Well-Known Member
Zen, no it wasnt that female in the photos that laid eggs last year, it was the female(not pictured) that laid the other clutch pictured, the slightly creased clutch.
I was really pushing it allowing my diamonds to lay in consecutive years but they could do it because i was taking the eggs immediately after laying instead of leaving them with her. They had the energy to lay the eggs but not enough energy to incubate them and had i have left the eggs with the female i think it would have led to problems. They wouldnt have had the energy to get their body temps up through shivering thermogenesis and both the female and the eggs would have suffered. I think the clutch would have most certainly been lost and the females are quite stubborn and dont always leave a clutch when it's in a state of decay. This would probably be the reason why they need several years off in the wild, they're not just laying the eggs, but maternally incubating them too.
I was really pushing it allowing my diamonds to lay in consecutive years but they could do it because i was taking the eggs immediately after laying instead of leaving them with her. They had the energy to lay the eggs but not enough energy to incubate them and had i have left the eggs with the female i think it would have led to problems. They wouldnt have had the energy to get their body temps up through shivering thermogenesis and both the female and the eggs would have suffered. I think the clutch would have most certainly been lost and the females are quite stubborn and dont always leave a clutch when it's in a state of decay. This would probably be the reason why they need several years off in the wild, they're not just laying the eggs, but maternally incubating them too.
re 2
Onley ever found two females nesting for a second time 93 and 97 and 94 and 97.That second female was the subject of a number of articles,it would nest adjacent to its aestivation site which is a very different storey to what shine and slip would observe on the sydney north and cowan.Yeh zen you get all different colours etc even out of several i ve caught in the gosford area one was extremely pretty yellow and cream rossettes,a little rip snorter,and the others were just average joes.
Onley ever found two females nesting for a second time 93 and 97 and 94 and 97.That second female was the subject of a number of articles,it would nest adjacent to its aestivation site which is a very different storey to what shine and slip would observe on the sydney north and cowan.Yeh zen you get all different colours etc even out of several i ve caught in the gosford area one was extremely pretty yellow and cream rossettes,a little rip snorter,and the others were just average joes.
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