Bad shed - again!

[andynic07]

I would imagine that the humidity up at Mackay would be sufficient for most species of snake in Australia besides the GTP. It is usually our substrate or heating/ventilation that dries out their environment. When the air is cold it carries less moisture then when it is hot, so with a lot of air exchange from ventilation it is possible to suck in cold air with little moisture and heat the air with our heating element which allows to air to take on moisture from the enclosure and it exits out of the other vent.

 

[Lawra]

Ah ok that makes sense. When I first built the enclosure he's in now I was having trouble giving him a temperature gradient so I cut a big hole in the top ( i couldn't make holes in the sides of this one) Ah well live and learn! Vent holes will go on the sides in the new one

 

[Snowman]

I would imagine that the humidity up at Mackay would be sufficient for most species of snake in Australia besides the GTP. It is usually our substrate or heating/ventilation that dries out their environment. When the air is cold it carries less moisture then when it is hot, so with a lot of air exchange from ventilation it is possible to suck in cold air with little moisture and heat the air with our heating element which allows to air to take on moisture from the enclosure and it exits out of the other vent.

Yep spot on. When I had a few bad sheds with one of my BHPs I got a hygrometer and it said my humidity in the viv was under 30%. So I tried lots of different things to raise the humidity. Misting worked well, but only for a few hours. I tried larger water bowls, water under the heater etc etc...In the end I blocked up most of my vents, and made sure the heat went off at night and it worked a charm. I think not having the heat on at night brought in a lot of moist air. And blocking the vents had the effect Andy described. Since then I have changed my BHP vivs to home made heat panels under a shelf. They still shed perfectly and the panels don't dry out the air regardless of the size of vents I use. The pythons tend to sit on the shelfs and get belly heat. Though now and then I see them basking under the shelf.

 

[Lawra]

Awesome thanks heaps I've got a heat mat from when he was in a smaller tank. Should I try to incorporate it into his bigger enclosure as well as the CHE? I'll be putting in a fairly large tile and he'll have a couple of ledges as well. Do you think the heat mat should go under the tile or under the ledge? Tile will be on left under CHE and ledge is fairly central.

 

[Pitttownboy]

I would purchase a heat cord most of which are submersible, get a 3 meter 15 watt one, put this into bottom of 4liter ice cream container hold down with tile then fill up half way with warm water. This will raise humidity inside tank and being warm water will encourage bathing

 

[Paintbrushturkey]

My 8month old woma had a trouble shed last month so when his eyes clouded up a few days ago I thought I'd just leave him alone and not interfere to "help" this time.

Just checked on him and this is what I found. Should I leave him alone to rub the rest off or put him in a bath? There are flakes everywhere. I don't know if it's the weather or if I've done something wrong.
Edit: pics
View attachment 294805View attachment 294806

put a hidebox filled with damp spangum moss, or tissue or similar, in when you see him going into shed mode, may not work for you but works for me anyways. It's petter than misting which my guy really hates (he seems a bit hydrophobic but doesn't seem to mind dam towels/tissues/ spangum moss don't know why)

 

[Lawra]

put a hidebox filled with damp spangum moss, or tissue or similar, in when you see him going into shed mode, may not work for you but works for me anyways. It's petter than misting which my guy really hates (he seems a bit hydrophobic but doesn't seem to mind dam towels/tissues/ spangum moss don't know why)

I'll build one into his new enclosure thanks for the advice.

 

[buffcoat]

Yep. Make a humid hide. Any container with a lid bought from the dollar store, something to cut a hole in either the top or front of the container and sphagnum moss from your local building supply store or dollar store.

Cut a hole in either the lid or the front of the container. Stuff it full of sphagnum. Spray it down. Put lid back on.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[johnk]

I guess I must be lucky when I read about the shedding porblems people have experienced. I bought my Bredli in early June and she is approx 6 months old now. A week and a half ago she had cloudy eyes, didn't want to eat and made a squeaky sound when she was moving around. I left her alone and when I came home from work the next day there was one complete, one piece shed skin hanging of her branch and one bright and shiny Bredli who was hungry. Hope it stays this easy

 

[princessparrot]

I guess I must be lucky when I read about the shedding porblems people have experienced. I bought my Bredli in early June and she is approx 6 months old now. A week and a half ago she had cloudy eyes, didn't want to eat and made a squeaky sound when she was moving around. I left her alone and when I came home from work the next day there was one complete, one piece shed skin hanging of her branch and one bright and shiny Bredli who was hungry. Hope it stays this easy

I hope it stays like that with my little girl(woma) aswell. If only I could say the same for my shinglebacks:? would any of these hint help with them?

 

[Pitttownboy]

Shingle backs don't full shed as adults in my experience

 

[princessparrot]

Shingle backs don't full shed as adults in my experience

Ok. The girl seems to shed most of it in one piece with the belly and legs separately but the boys just come off in small bits, sometimes even just individual scales

 

[Lawra]

I would purchase a heat cord most of which are submersible, get a 3 meter 15 watt one, put this into bottom of 4liter ice cream container hold down with tile then fill up half way with warm water. This will raise humidity inside tank and being warm water will encourage bathing

I just noticed this comment, sorry. Do you think I should incorporate something like this into his new enclosure or only put it in when he's coming up to shed? If I was to have it in there the whole time, would I also provide a separate drinking water bowl?

 

[Snowman]

I would purchase a heat cord most of which are submersible, get a 3 meter 15 watt one, put this into bottom of 4liter ice cream container hold down with tile then fill up half way with warm water. This will raise humidity inside tank and being warm water will encourage bathing

A heat cord is submersible in the same way and extension lead is. I would not recommend putting a cord in water unless it was sold as an actual submersible heat cord. Which I have never seen....

 

[Ramy]

I would purchase a heat cord most of which are submersible, get a 3 meter 15 watt one, put this into bottom of 4liter ice cream container hold down with tile then fill up half way with warm water. This will raise humidity inside tank and being warm water will encourage bathing

Sounds like a pretty elaborate way to increase the humidity. Seems like anything involving heating water can risk the combination of electricity and water. Doesn't generally end well. (though I have seen heat ropes sold as submersible for aquariums).

While there are some good suggestions here for increasing humidity/dampness while they're close to shed, the suggestion of reducing humidity loss by reducing how much air transfers out of the enclosure might be better. (and one I hadn't thought of before) It's a long term solution, instead of finding a quick fix. Thermometer/Hygrometer combos often aren't expensive. You might get them at bunnings, I know jaycar sell them, and some petshops stock them.

 

[Snowman]

Sounds like a pretty elaborate way to increase the humidity. Seems like anything involving heating water can risk the combination of electricity and water. Doesn't generally end well. (though I have seen heat ropes sold as submersible for aquariums).

While there are some good suggestions here for increasing humidity/dampness while they're close to shed, the suggestion of reducing humidity loss by reducing how much air transfers out of the enclosure might be better. (and one I hadn't thought of before) It's a long term solution, instead of finding a quick fix. Thermometer/Hygrometer combos often aren't expensive. You might get them at bunnings, I know jaycar sell them, and some petshops stock them.

Yep first step is definitely a hygrometer. Otherwise you have no idea what's going on. I agree with the air transfer too. Why increase the humidity via heat and water? Nothing like adding more power to an already decent power bill. I've never had to increase humidity with misting or heated water. I've had a problem viv before, but blocking up the vents to reduce the air flow worked a treat. Also making sure I had no more than 12hrs of heat. CHE can really dry the air out. But if they are off at night I find the viv gets enough moisture to tolerate them.

 

[dannydee]

As wing nut stated there a lot of possible reasons for possibly having a bad shed. I would suggest trying the easy ones for first. Make sure your husbandry is spot on then look for other stuff. I make sure my woma has fresh water every second day. I also keep it on either wood shavings or hemp fibre and have had no issues with bad sheds. One thing that I think works in my favour is cooling my reptiles over winter, this reduces the air exchange and drying out of the enclosure a lot. Also up until they are 12 months they stay in plastic tubs where the humidity is controlled with less air flow. I also do not handle my reptiles very much so they would not be stressed. I do not need to spray any of my snakes and do not get bad sheds. Hope you can look through this information and pick useful techniques that you can tailor to your keeping style and help your snake shed well.

Humidity is one thing but what everyone is overlooking is the fact that the snake in question could be dehydrated. It is vitally important to provide snakes with fresh water every other day or at the very minimum twice a week, as they do not like to drink 'old' water.
A properly hydrated snake will never have a bad shed.
If you haven't been changing the snake's water frequently, he may now choose not to drink from his bowl. Try injecting water into his food item and watch how his sheds improve!

 

[Ramy]

I've never had a problem with pythons not drinking "old water". I mean, if it's getting dirty/dusty or if they've been bathing in it after taking a dump, sure. But I mostly change the water when I clean, otherwise just top it up. While I'm sure dehydration could play a part in shedding, they also secrete oils to make the shed come free. I don't see mine going for a drink around shedding time, though I do see them go for a drink when they're ready to poo. My opinion is that a python will drink slightly stale water instead of become dehydrated. This just comes down to personal experience, I guess.

I have seen mine go for a small drink as soon as I top it up, but they also stick their head in a stream of water when it's pouring out of a bottle. I have always taken this as curiosity rather than thirst, since they're more likely to look around and go away.

EDIT: I guess the easiest thing to test is still humidity. If the humidity is okay, then start consider other possibilities?

 

[Bluetongue1]

I have to agree with Danydee and wouldjust like to add a bit of explanation if I may. If you have an otherwise healthy snake and you have not been stupid and handled it as it came up to a shed, then it is odds on if the snake had a bad shed that it was not sufficiently hydrated.


Hydration levels are a result of water intake versus water loss. It is a matter empirical fact that snakes will seldom, if ever, drink water that has stood for more than a day or so. Therefore, to ensure adequate water intake, fresh water should be provided at least three times a week.


Snakes lose water when they void wastes but the greatest loss occurs with breathing. Every exhaled breath is 100% humid. The amount of moisture lost with each breath depends upon the humidity of the air being inhaled. In nature, snakes spend a significant amount of time coiled up in the tight confines of a refuge. The coiling up helps them retain heat gained from basking, blocks entry to predators and importantly, allows the humidity from breathing to be retained and build up, thereby reducing water loss. Big hides with large entries will result in increased water loss. Ventilation can is even more significant factor. I personally believe its need is often over emphasised. OK, you need vents so that your animals are not living in 80% plus humidity. A couple of small vents is usually more than adequate. The insides of houses are dry places with quite low humidity. If the air inside your terrarium is being rapidly exchanged with air outside of it, then the humidity level inside the terrarium is going to be low, quite likely too low.
______


The fluid used to separate the old skin from the new (which is what turns the eyes cloudy blue) is essentially lymph with a special enzyme in it. In other words, it is water with some dissolved materials in it. The topping up of a water bowl is providing fresh water. Snakes will drink moving water that has been in their enclosure for days. They just won't drink still water that has sat still.


Blue

 

[Lawra]

I have to agree with Danydee and wouldjust like to add a bit of explanation if I may. If you have an otherwise healthy snake and you have not been stupid and handled it as it came up to a shed, then it is odds on if the snake had a bad shed that it was not sufficiently hydrated.


Hydration levels are a result of water intake versus water loss. It is a matter empirical fact that snakes will seldom, if ever, drink water that has stood for more than a day or so. Therefore, to ensure adequate water intake, fresh water should be provided at least three times a week.


Snakes lose water when they void wastes but the greatest loss occurs with breathing. Every exhaled breath is 100% humid. The amount of moisture lost with each breath depends upon the humidity of the air being inhaled. In nature, snakes spend a significant amount of time coiled up in the tight confines of a refuge. The coiling up helps them retain heat gained from basking, blocks entry to predators and importantly, allows the humidity from breathing to be retained and build up, thereby reducing water loss. Big hides with large entries will result in increased water loss. Ventilation can is even more significant factor. I personally believe its need is often over emphasised. OK, you need vents so that your animals are not living in 80% plus humidity. A couple of small vents is usually more than adequate. The insides of houses are dry places with quite low humidity. If the air inside your terrarium is being rapidly exchanged with air outside of it, then the humidity level inside the terrarium is going to be low, quite likely too low.
______


The fluid used to separate the old skin from the new (which is what turns the eyes cloudy blue) is essentially lymph with a special enzyme in it. In other words, it is water with some dissolved materials in it. The topping up of a water bowl is providing fresh water. Snakes will drink moving water that has been in their enclosure for days. They just won't drink still water that has sat still.


Blue

Thank you for such an extensive explanation. That was awesome! I love to learn new things.

I think where I've gone wrong with Steve was feeding him during a shed. His eyes would go milky then clear up and his feeding day would come up so I'd give him a rat.

That combined with us having a very dry season at the moment has probably been the cause of his bad sheds.

His hide is defs not too big, it actually has gotten too small for him (he still uses it though, see pic) but I'm making new ones for him while building his new enclosure.

My husbandry methods really aren't all that out there. I used to hold him to feed him rats (with tongs) because I found he was striking at nowhere and at me instead of the rat. So holding him allowed me to point him away from me when giving him the rat. Now that he's bigger, I hold him and place the rat on a dish into his enclosure then put him back in there. He doesn't tend to strike anymore, just opens his mouth and starts eating.

I am planning to invest in a good hygrometer, which before starting this thread I hadn't considered because I live in a very humid part of the country.

The main thing that bothered me was his retained eye scale. I tried all the methods I read on here from other threads and I ended up having to take him to the breeder I bought him from who then got tweezers and removed it (the one method I wasn't confident enough to try). Oh actually I didn't try everything, I read about using sticky tape and I wasn't comfortable tryin that either.

Everyone's input has been so great I have learned so much and it has made me such a better pet owner. I really am thankful that this forum is browsed by people with such a vast and varied range if experience.

Pic of Steve in his too-small hide