BHP and brumation

[Mortevicar]

Hi everyone

Ursula is 18 months old and this is her first winter with me. The weather here in Melbourne has really dropped - hitting 2-3C outside in the morning and only getting to around 14C during the day. Even though her enclosure is 30C at the cool end, 37C at the warm end and 40C on her basking rock, she has refused three feeds over the last week.

She is still fairly active, but today I let her out and whilst on the floor tried to tag me. This is the first time that has ever happened.

Can anyone provide advice on what I should do? I don't want to keep throwing out rats but my priority is keeping her healthy. She has digested and excreted her last meal. Do I lower the temperatures and decrease the photo period?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Morris

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Do you heat the enclosure at night?
None of mine after the first winter receive any night time heating.
My heating period for adults is currently down at 7-8 hrs per day, otherwise no heat is applied.

Forgot to mention I am also in Melbourne

 

[Mortevicar]

Do you heat the enclosure at night?
None of mine after the first winter receive any night time heating.
My heating period for adults is currently down at 7-8 hrs per day, otherwise no heat is applied.

Forgot to mention I am also in Melbourne

Thanks Paul. I only started doing this last night, I only have heat under her hide which is set at 30C - everything else is switched off. I leave for work at 6am and get home around 5pm. So what do you recommend as far as heating ranges etc and do you feed your BHP's at all during winter? Also as she is 18-months old, would your method apply to her?

Morris

 

[Tobe404]

I know they're not BHPs... But since moving my Jungle and bigger MD out into the shed they've also refused food. I'm guessing it's because overnight the ambient temps are just so low so the Winter bug has really hit. There temps during the day are around 32-35 where the heat mat is and this drops to about 25 at night.

Also my MD hissed at me the other day. First time ever.

Plus the Jungle struck at the front of the enclosure. First time for that too (without food being involved)... Done it once before. But at that time I had a Rat dangling in front of him/her and didn't even give me time to open the enclosure. Lol.

Both are around 17 months old.

Having said all this. Could just be taking them a while to settle in from being moved. Got a couple of Coastals as well and they are still eating for the most part. Their temps are very similar to the Jungle and MD... See what happens.

 

[Mortevicar]

I know they're not BHPs... But since moving my Jungle and bigger MD out into the shed they've also refused food. I'm guessing it's because overnight the ambient temps are just so low so the Winter bug has really hit. There temps during the day are around 32-35 where the heat mat is and this drops to about 25 at night.

Also my MD hissed at me the other day. First time ever.

Plus the Jungle struck at the front of the enclosure. First time for that too (without food being involved)... Done it once before. But at that time I had a Rat dangling in front of him/her and didn't even give me time to open the enclosure. Lol.

Both are around 17 months old.

Having said all this. Could just be taking them a while to settle in from being moved. Got a couple of Coastals as well and they are still eating for the most part. Their temps are very similar to the Jungle and MD... See what happens.

My BHP normally eats like a horse and has never refused a feed, it was last week when it started. She smelt it, ran her head along it, then it was like "whatever" and slithered back into her hide. This happened another two times. Ironically she is like clockwork in the morning - waiting at the front the glass wanting to come out. But I am going to reduce her photoperiod and not have any temps during the night, and leave her hide at 30C during daylight hours.

Hopefully this is the right approach to take?

 

[andynic07]

I have not brumated my bhp's as they are this year hatched but with my other snakes I drop the photo period and heat by one hour a week and give no night heating two weeks after their last feed. I do this until I get down from 12 hours to 8 hours. I do not know if this is text book but my snakes seem to brumate and have no ill effects.

 

[Mortevicar]

I have not brumated my bhp's as they are this year hatched but with my other snakes I drop the photo period and heat by one hour a week and give no night heating two weeks after their last feed. I do this until I get down from 12 hours to 8 hours. I do not know if this is text book but my snakes seem to brumate and have no ill effects.

Thanks andynic07 - so what heat do you give them during the day? And I assume you don't feed during this period? Thanks for your reply.

Morris

 

[slide]

Give them 32-35 hotspot during the day and make sure they have a hide to curl up in at night as it would get very cold where you are at night. By warming up to a good temp during the day they can hold some of that heat overnight. Smaller snakes will lose that heat quicker than larger ones.
If you want to keep feeding though you can try to keep the temps up at night but if its really cold you will have difficulty keeping the cool end warm enough without some form of gentle heat at the cool end overnight.

Cheapest just to cool them though, it will be a hard task to keep the temps up plus no food bills and no poop to clean.

 

[Mortevicar]

Give them 32-35 hotspot during the day and make sure they have a hide to curl up in at night as it would get very cold where you are at night. By warming up to a good temp during the day they can hold some of that heat overnight. Smaller snakes will lose that heat quicker than larger ones.
If you want to keep feeding though you can try to keep the temps up at night but if its really cold you will have difficulty keeping the cool end warm enough without some form of gentle heat at the cool end overnight.

Cheapest just to cool them though, it will be a hard task to keep the temps up plus no food bills and no poop to clean.

I leave for work at 6am and get home around 5pm. To reduce the photo period I will have to get a timer as she gets 11 hours of light and heat at the moment. Last week I kept the temps up overnight but she still didn't eat.

Even though she is only 18 months she is around 7 feet and weighs 3 kilos, so I am sure she has enough on her to brumate safely (I'm not power feeding her BTW, only two medium rats every 3 weeks, but her mother is 13 feet long). Plus not having to worry about cleaning up poop is appealing!

 

[andynic07]

Thanks andynic07 - so what heat do you give them during the day? And I assume you don't feed during this period? Thanks for your reply.

Morris

I give them the usual basking temperatures through the day but for shorter periods (8 Hours) and thats right I do not feed at all. I only start doing this with snakes that are over 1 year old but have heard of one person brumating in the first winter without harm.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Mortevicar]

I give them the usual basking temperatures through the day but for shorter periods (8 Hours) and thats right I do not feed at all. I only start doing this with snakes that are over 1 year old but have heard of one person brumating in the first winter without harm.

Cheers
Andy

Great - thanks for that Andy and everyone else for your advice. Just need to buy a timer and I am all set! Off to Bunnings I go after work!

 

[Mortevicar]

I give them the usual basking temperatures through the day but for shorter periods (8 Hours) and thats right I do not feed at all. I only start doing this with snakes that are over 1 year old but have heard of one person brumating in the first winter without harm.

Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy

Thanks - do you mind if I ask a couple more questions?

1. During brumating do you let your snakes out of their enclosure?
2. If they urinate do you move them from their hide to clean up the mess?

Thanks
Morris

 

[andynic07]

Hi Andy

Thanks - do you mind if I ask a couple more questions?

1. During brumating do you let your snakes out of their enclosure?
2. If they urinate do you move them from their hide to clean up the mess?

Thanks
Morris

I do not handle my snakes at all if I can help it and also I find my snakes will move around a little during the day so cleaning can be done easily but also I do not find they urinate much.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Thanks Paul. I only started doing this last night, I only have heat under her hide which is set at 30C - everything else is switched off. I leave for work at 6am and get home around 5pm. So what do you recommend as far as heating ranges etc and do you feed your BHP's at all during winter? Also as she is 18-months old, would your method apply to her?

I do not use any heat at all at night with any of my BHP's at 18 months or older. Younger ones I feed through winter so I have to maintain sufficient heat for them to digest through the winter period only.
I personally stop feeding the older animals around April/May and start reducing photo period by around 30-60 mins per week but maintain "normal" day time and hotspot temps. All my animals are inside so despite the lack of heating I struggle to get temps below 21/22 as the house heating is set at 18.
You certainly need to buy a timer, decent electronic ones in Bunnings are only 15-20 bucks and worth every penny. Mechanical timers are ok but have a high failure rate after a year or so.

All just my opinion/what I do of course.

If my animals need cleaning they get cleaned/handled as needed. I certainly don't avoid it unless its a breeding pair. They can all turn a bit snappy during this period but it is a highly important part of a reptiles life cycle, (IMO)

 

[Tobe404]

While we're on this... How much weight/condition would you expect a Python to lose over WInter? If you still had a warm spot of 32-35 during the day and 25 or so at night?

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

While we're on this... How much weight/condition would you expect a Python to lose over WInter? If you still had a warm spot of 32-35 during the day and 25 or so at night?

Honest opinion, if not breeding, hardly anything.

 

[Marzzy]

Dunno about mechanical timers stuffing up they seem to last longer then my digital ones.....

 

[Rogue5861]

Dunno about mechanical timers stuffing up they seem to last longer then my digital ones.....

Only problem with mech timers is lack of battery backup, for telling real time in case of power outage. Would be a annoying for the reptile if lights were on till 11pm instead of 8pm.


Rick

 

[Tobe404]

Honest opinion, if not breeding, hardly anything.

Nah. They're about 17-18 months old... So I was hoping I could give it a try next season.

 

[Pauls_Pythons]

Nah. They're about 17-18 months old... So I was hoping I could give it a try next season.

Various opinions around on breeding sizes/ages of different species of reptile as Im sure you are aware. Certainly no harm in trying at 2 1/2 so long as the female has enough size & weight and you follow good processes