Breeding for temperament not looks?

[FlippinBirdies]

Hey Team,

Im not a breeder and am not even considering breeding but am curious on other choices to breed other than good looks.

Is it common place for many breeders to breed for temperament or is that not really what most people in the industry of breeding herps are focused on?

Opinions on the topic welcome!

Obviously the goal isn't to have snakes that will cuddle you and give you a kiss when you feel blue or lick your face and laugh at your lame jokes but with more of the aggressive subspecies like Jungle is this a trait even able to be bred out or would you want to?

Thanks new friends!!!

 

[cypptrkk90]

you raise a valid argument. ill leave my opinion though, like humans id say each snake has its own personality, and i dont think you could decide the personality of an animal through selective breeding. for example 2 generous human parents, wouldn't neccesarily have a generous child? im not entirely sure though haha.

 

[GeckoJosh]

Aggression has been proven to be genetically inheritable in mammals such as dogs and rats to name a couple.
Many breeders not only bred for colour but also for vigour and/or temperament

 

[saximus]

Yeah I've heard of lots of people doing it. The people I bought my Water Python off say theirs are bred for temperament. Not sure how quickly/well it works though

 

[FlippinBirdies]

Interesting points there. Id be curious to know more on this and what sort of success has been had if any from some of the breeders on here...

 

[Norm]

The lady I got my first diamond off said she also breeds jungles that 'just don`t bite'. I don`t know how accurate her statement is because I`ve never seen any of them but she claims her jungles are extremely placid. I can only assume that it is genetics that make her jungles any more placid than others.

 

[FlippinBirdies]

I would love to "meet" some of the success stories and see if its just confident handlers vs breeding that creates placid snakes...

 

[K3nny]

problem with this is you can't really quantitatively test for success or failure with these things, whereas with color as it is a visual thing you can get good results.
temperament is affected by a huge number of variables, like temperature, new environment, smells, handling, etc.

Obviously some reptiles never tame down no matter how much you put into it, but i question the reverse, does a reptile being tame automatically means it has a unique sequence of genes? maybe not.

Whats sorta troubling is when people start advertising line bred for temperament, theres no guarantee even if the effort has been put by said breeder or even if the program was a success. Based on experience, its a buyers beware market out there.

 

[FlippinBirdies]

So true Kenny!!! This is my point regarding handler/situation variable and just because a snake is placid for a confident handler doesnt mean a nervous new person would say the same thing about it.

A lot of it can be put down to placebo affect as well. If you believe what the seller tells you then its true. lol

 

[Naja_nivea]

People have been selectively breeding farm animals and pets for various traits for ten thousand years +, including for docility. So i am sure some people try select for temperament in snakes but not sure successful it is for snakes and over how many generations it would take.

 

[D_flitton]

What a great question. The argument could also be made that cats/dOgs ect have been domesticated eg bread out to remove their wild side. But also domesticated animals can still be aggressive when not correctly taken care of. Eg pitbulls can be very friendly but also can be agresive when they are miss treated.

 

[Waterrat]

I doubt very much anyone can claim success in breeding for temperament and I doubt even more that someone would be prepared to offer any guarantee.
In a way, it would be kind of good if those wanting to keep large species such as scrubbies and olives could have reliable access to docile animals but it's not going to happen, not any time soon anyway.

Bit off the subject:
If you were to guarantee non-aggressive temperament, reliably easy and safe to handle Australian snake - which species would you nominate?

 

[FlippinBirdies]

Hmmm v good question. I mean as best as I can tell and obviously there is always exceptions Id say coastals as a general rule. They probably the most common and in theory means have been captive bred the longest? Obviously I dont know if this is accurate so happy to be corrected here.

Your thoughts?

 

[grimbeny]

A reptile vet in Sydney once told me that Sydney people always think diamonds are more placid than coastals, where as brisbanites think the opposite.

 

[FlippinBirdies]

Wonder why that is?

 

[Waterrat]

Hmmm, didn't get too many opinions here, does it mean none of our snakes can be declared a non-biting species?

 

[kawasakirider]

Bit off the subject:
If you were to guarantee non-aggressive temperament, reliably easy and safe to handle Australian snake - which species would you nominate?

Taipan or any other elapid.

I believe that temperament is inheritable, but I think it's more down to the individual, and the nature v nurture debate. I think it's unfair to say jungles are usually snappier, just like I believe it's unfair and irrational for people to label pitbulls as killers.

I'm not saying you should leave a pitbull unattended around a child, but no dog should really be left alone around a child. In saying that, I know plenty of pitbulls, staffies and bull arabs that love kids and there's no issue as long as supervision is given.


EDIT

I may have misunderstood your question, Waterrat. Were you asking us to pick a snake we believed to have the aforementioned traits, or nominate a snake that we would like to see with those traits, and be able to guarantee them?

 

[Waterrat]

As I said, it's a bit off the topic and apologise for that.
We read quite a few posts where people are looking for a docile snake that wouldn't bite them, I think there is one such thread on the front page right now.
Is there such species? Would there be perhaps a niche in the market to breed such species (if it exists) to satisfy the more frightened?

 

[kawasakirider]

It sounds weird, but I'm keen to get bitten by a large snake to get it over with. Mine hatched in December, and the biggest is probably about 2.5 feet long and very thin. I've only ever been bitten by him once, and it was when he missed the rat. It didn't hurt at all.

 

[Waterrat]

Now you got me lost. Completely.