breeding rats

[ALLANA]

well no one has answered my question on why is it not ok to kill a rat any other way than CO2 or breaking the things neck. But it's ok to set traps everywere for them and feed them up with rat poisen which is a lot longer than 20 min I can assure u and proberbly much more horrid. And what's really got me is that do u all really think pythongal is the only one who freezes rat (be serious) same as eating rats live!!. I'm not saying I do it, but I can gaurantee u there are others out there that do, I know plenty of them and half of them are respected people they just don't tell u the whole truth cause they know they will get flamed by the people who just can't justify this. At the end of the day like I said were talking about a animal that is a pest and full of diseases but because it's not grey and it's white and black and fuzzy and cute we can't kill it any other way than what we consider is humane. Has anyone every asked a rat is gassing a nice way to die. We have snakes, snakes need food they don't have food that comes in a tin like our poor dogs and cats are forced to eat. We've trained snakes that they have to eat what we say which is frozed CO2 killed food and we won't have it any other way. I'm not justifying either way but my point is rats are a animal YES, it's not ok to freeze them, drown them etc, but it is ok to bait them to death if there grey and running around our house ?.

 

[Earthling]

You can not justify what scientists do to rats. Its plain cruel.
Read some Peter Singer, your library will have it....very good read and easy too, may change your life.

"as for me thinking like and being a rat; If someone where to freeze me, i dont think i would have a choice as to whether or not thats what i want!! It was gunna happen whether i liked it or not!! "

Think, if i was a rat, and I DID have a choice, how would I like to die?
You as the killer have the power to choose. The rats dont.

 

[Python Gal]

im just running around in circles... first i am asked by ashleigh to be / think like a rat, so i did. Now i am being asked by earthling to be the killer. I am the killer so i am already being her... greenwillow thinks they are the smart one here, but cant seem to get what this is about.

im sick of having to wait 900 seconds to reply to these stupid remarks!! I have said im gunna put a pin in its head, so GET OVER IT!! Or is that cruel as well?!?
thats it problem solvered, ya'll have a nice life...

 

[Earthling]

Allana........just because society does something does not make it right.
If you go back far enough slavery was the done thing and perfectly legitimate..if you suggested otherwise you were condemned.
Not so long ago, if you had black skin in Australia you couldnt vote......you were fauna.
Not so long ago, if you were female you were not equal to men.

Currently we still poison animals....
Currently some people still believe freezing to death an animal is humane.
Currently some people still believe its OK to kill by trapping...look how thats changed in the last 30 years(rabbit traps for an example).
Currently many things happen that with time people will realise are wrong.
You can be a leader in that change or you can follow.
All about choice.

 

[ALLANA]

Not entering this debate here, but it takes much longer fo a pinkie to be gassed IME than it does to be frozen. So what's worse? Starving them of oxygen or freezing them or feeding them alive or smashing them aganst one of those pretty rocks that australis posted?

No one way sems particularly pleasent to me.

Yep I agree nothing is nice about killing anything at the end of the day.

 

[Ashleigh:]]

Python Gal.. I have asked serveral times now and so has earthling.. Just answer the damn question..

If you were that rat how would you prefer to get killed??

 

[Ramsayi]

Anyone who thinks its pain free to freeze a living rodent or any other mammal for that matter go and place your hand in your freezer on a bag of frozen whatever and keep it there for a lousy 5 minutes then come back and tell me that it isnt painful.The best methods are the ones that dispatch them QUICKLY,anyone who cant understand that needs some serious help.

 

[hugsta]

So what do you all recomend as beng the most humane way of killing pinkies? I would like to hear this from people who actually have some experience in this and are not 'guessing' at humane ways of killing them.

 

[hugsta]

Anyone who thinks its pain free to freeze a living rodent or any other mammal for that matter go and place your hand in your freezer on a bag of frozen whatever and keep it there for a lousy 5 minutes then come back and tell me that it isnt painful.The best methods are the ones that dispatch them QUICKLY,anyone who cant understand that needs some serious help.

I need help......:shock: :lol:

But that's irrelevant to killing rats.:lol:

 

[Ramsayi]

lol Daz in your case you are wayyyyyyyyyyyyy past the help stage lol

 

[ALLANA]

Allana........just because society does something does not make it right.
If you go back far enough slavery was the done thing and perfectly legitimate..if you suggested otherwise you were condemned.
Not so long ago, if you had black skin in Australia you couldnt vote......you were fauna.
Not so long ago, if you were female you were not equal to men.

Currently we still poison animals....
Currently some people still believe freezing to death an animal is humane.
Currently some people still believe its OK to kill by trapping...look how thats changed in the last 30 years(rabbit traps for an example).
Currently many things happen that with time people will realise are wrong.
You can be a leader in that change or you can follow.
All about choice.

That's exactly my point. And I"m not going to get into a debate about the last 100 years of our history and I"m not saying that anyway of killing a rat is nice. What I'm trying to say is that all these people are on here condeming feeding a rat live to a snake, or freezing etc. Yet I"m sure they all have rat bate around there house caues they don't want them filthy firmin inside chewing there walls out making a nest etc etc, I don't know to many that have a rat catcher and realese them back into the wild. Same as the good old kane toad how many of us catch them and realease them back somewere were they won't bother us. My point is us as humans think we have the right to make the right choice for everything reality is we dont so how can we say a snake must eat frozen, how can we say which is the right way for something to die (there's no right way unless it dies naturall).

 

[Earthling]

Yes hugsta pinkies are sometimes hard to kill and to naswer your question, as I previously said I CO2 and if still alive now do the pin thing. i find however CO2 kills 90% of them.

 

[ALLANA]

Python Gal, Im gunna have to say, you need to grow up a bit. You are losing this debate by 100/1 and you are still claiming that your method is acceptable, when its clearly not. Time to accept you are wrong and that you have been making a mistake by putting them in the freezer. It takes you 10seconds to knock them on the head before you put them in the freezer, i suggest you do it.
Might save you alot of karma in the future too....

I would love to see someone wack a pinkie on the head (wouldn't be much left of it I'm sure).

 

[Bonustokin]

So what do you all recomend as beng the most humane way of killing pinkies? I would like to hear this from people who actually have some experience in this and are not 'guessing' at humane ways of killing them.

IMO, grab them by the tail, and bang their head on something soild, hard as u can. This might take more then one "bang" to kill the pinky, but the first "bang" defenatly KO's them, so they dont feel the 2nd one. And you could give them a 3rd if you really wanna make sure

They are really hard to hold and swing by the tail because they are so small, but it helps if you hold at the base of the tail, not the tip.

 

[ALLANA]

IMO, grab them by the tail, and bang their head on something soild, hard as u can. This might take more then one "bang" to kill the pinky, but the first "bang" defenatly KO's them, so they dont feel the 2nd one. And you could give them a 3rd if you really wanna make sure

They are really hard to hold and swing by the tail because they are so small, but it helps if you hold at the base of the tail, not the tip.

Well I dunno but I have done a fair few this way. Pretty much u don't do it right u end up with a rat with a bad bad headache (cruelty). I have done and seen both methods, wacking, breaking necks and it isn't really pleasent and well they don't die the second u do it.

 

[Python Gal]

Dramas Dramas Dramas!!! All over how a rat falls asleep / dies!! In future i am now gunna put a pin through its head then freeze it (once i know its dead), as thats what many other people have said is BETTER to do. So i am gunna give it a go. Now is there any one else who wants to continue this debate?!? Or are we finally over and done with?!?!

No hard feelings?!? I enjoyed this debate, i learnt not to be HONEST!! LOL!!!

 

[NCHERPS]

Please keep this thread civil and don't get into personal attacks, we all have our own opinions on the subject. THANKYOU.

My personal experience is that I lay down a flat peice of plastic sheeting on the garage floor, take out the pinkie mice or rat pups and throw them really hard onto the plastic sheeting, I have maybe 2 out of 100 split.
Most die first throw, some will be stunned and die second throw.
I believe this to be a quick and efficient way to kill them.

 

[Ashleigh:]]

Alright.. Back to the live feeding then shall we??

What things have you tried to get your snake off live??

 

[GreenWillow]

It is because we care how a rat "falls asleep" that we are good people. We respect life in all it's forms. We want to do what is kindest for an animal, even if it is just a "food item".

 

[Scleropages]

I have never found 2 snakes that are the same!! as for Ashleigh:] like you said you have no experience, and do you think that a snake that has been fed nothing but live food for 4 years of its life is gunna turn around and eat dead?!?

Ok I have to comment on this....

About 7 years ago I got an adult male coastal carpet (he was older than 4 years) of a redneck who only feed him live rats , It took me close on 12 months to get him eating frozen rats (trying once a month) , I still have him now and he never misses a meal.

As for ashleigh being new to keeping snakes , she seems understand alot more than most newbie-snake keepers seem to atm.

Sure feeding live is "natural" but snakes kept in captivity is not natural , easy.