Buying Jags

[cement]

thank you for this, i don't own a JAG but if the neuro condition is almost undetectable like is said in my post quoting from another forum then why panic. obviously if 100% carry the gene then they shouldn't used to attempt to breed it out. I definatley think i would be easier if they were Epileptics (hehehe) because that can be idiopathic, genetic, or brought on by a febrile fever (yep all animals get them) and can easily be treated by stuffing the meds in the food given via the mouth. I've seen this happen.

I am not sure what your attempting to say here.

I am only interested in debating the guarantee issue, and bringing light upon the facts that can be hidden from people that look no further then their noses.

Its quite obvious that this stirs up the Pro jag club, and so it should. Don't panic at all Lambert, there will be plenty of people quite willing to take your money when the time comes for you to buy.

All I am doing here is trying to determine if these "guarantees/sales gimmicks" on offer really have any substance to them. Or, are they not even worth the smoke they are breathed out with.

 

[gilmore]

Lets see if we can bust another myth. Or not.

Can I ask what myth we are trying to bust,im lost somewhat lol.

 

[wokka]

Four years ago I bought 3 pairs of adult Womas for $5000 a pair, which is about the same price as Jags now. One pair exhibited "signs consistent with OPMV' in the form of lack of muscle control whilst in quarantine. I euthanased that pair and gave the rest to the vet for observation and they were eventually euthanased. Perhaps everyone shold avoid buying Womas!

 

[gavgav]

im only new to the hole herp scene but i would still take the chance and buy a jag they look so amazing

 

[FusionMorelia]

im only new to the hole herp scene but i would still take the chance and buy a jag they look so amazing

im new 2 and after doing some research i dont think they need a guarantee at all everyone knows the risk and if you dont then you shouldn't have one simple as that, that being said it appears to me that most of the people most vocal in disliking JAG's are people losing money breeding regular snakes because of the recent popularity of them right now.
just my view as an outsider looking in.

 

[Kurto]

Who would give a 2+ year guarantee on any animal anyway? 1 month would be my limit... period.

 

[Jungle_Freak]

I agree Kurt
Quarantee that at the point of sale/purchase that you get a healthy python that is in good condition and feeding just like any other python sold .
There could be stress related issues dew to shipping of the RPM/jag , if so send it back for refund or exchange just like the normal senario with any current purchase etc.

Roger

 

[Australis]

Four years ago I bought 3 pairs of adult Womas for $5000 a pair, which is about the same price as Jags now. One pair exhibited "signs consistent with OPMV' in the form of lack of muscle control whilst in quarantine. I euthanased that pair and gave the rest to the vet for observation and they were eventually euthanased. Perhaps everyone shold avoid buying Womas!

Would you have avoided them if there was a 80%+ (as reported from o/s by jag breeders with far more experience than Australians) chance that they would show those same signs..?

 

[Jungle_Freak]

I also own a 50% jungle RPM/jag male at 11months old is 4 foot long feeding on medium rats and is fine to handle.
No signs of neuro issues yet ?
Roger

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

Hasn't this been bashed to death enough already???

Don't want one, not sure wether to get one, but I heard this about them and I heard that about them.....it's really simple...DONT GET ONE!

 

[PimmsPythons]

it is also misleading to say that they ALL have major,life threatening neuro issues when they don't. i admit, mine isn't out of the woods yet.its almost 3yo,happy and healthy but there is also the chance of neuro issues happening later ,but it is the chance i took after doing plenty of research.i don't think any jag owners pretend that there isn't an neuro issue.we like them .we know the potential risk. we bought them.
i still say there is a much,much higher risk of diamonds dieing from DPS then jags getting life debilatating neuro issues.i wonder why diamond breeders aren't being condemed for breeding diamonds.when mine died from DPS i didn't start hate threads.i knew the risks,took a chance and bought them and at the end of the day it didn't work out.i moved on.
if my jag did start developing severe neuro issues ,i'd be the first to state it and i'd just consider myself unlucky. no point getting worked up over it. the old saying,if you dont like them ,dont by them.
i also didn't buy my jag to make a squillion dollars as some people have stated.if that was the case i would have bought a male. i saw the one i liked ,it just happened to be a female so i bought her.all my animals are pets ,first and foremost.if issues develop later in life and a had to euthanaise her,i'd be sad because i lost a pet ,not because i lost $3000.then i'd move on.i know the potential risk and took a chance.i just don't agree with the "Jag haters club" making such a beat up over it and they dont even own one to realise they are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

This kind of sugar coating is misleading.
Just because yours hasnt YET doesnt really count as experience and something to advise on.
If yours was spinning uncontrollably, would you still advise the same and state that just you are unlucky, but dont let that discourage buying them, the odds are good - just not for me?
100% have the condition, it is a lucky dip alright, your aren't in the clear yet sorry.

 

[cement]

Can I ask what myth we are trying to bust,im lost somewhat lol.

THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES WITH THESE ANIMALS

Four years ago I bought 3 pairs of adult Womas for $5000 a pair, which is about the same price as Jags now. One pair exhibited "signs consistent with OPMV' in the form of lack of muscle control whilst in quarantine. I euthanased that pair and gave the rest to the vet for observation and they were eventually euthanased. Perhaps everyone shold avoid buying Womas!

sorry Warwick but the only thing I can glean from this post is that you bought from a dubious source, which may be relevant...

im new 2 and after doing some research i dont think they need a guarantee at all everyone knows the risk and if you dont then you shouldn't have one simple as that, that being said it appears to me that most of the people most vocal in disliking JAG's are people losing money breeding regular snakes because of the recent popularity of them right now.
just my view as an outsider looking in.

[deleted]

Who would give a 2+ year guarantee on any animal anyway? 1 month would be my limit... period.

No one said anything about 2 yrs, but if your serious about giving a one month guarantee then you are quite generous.

I agree Kurt
Quarantee that at the point of sale/purchase that you get a healthy python that is in good condition and feeding just like any other python sold .
There could be stress related issues dew to shipping of the RPM/jag , if so send it back for refund or exchange just like the normal senario with any current purchase etc.

Roger

Ok, this is the first real bit of discussion so far. Thanks again Roger.
Do you think it will be nerve racking freighting by air, with the possibility of the animal succumbing to the syndrome only having to be sent back at a loss to the seller, and then getting stuck with the animal. And generally speaking, can you see the other side where sellers may use the "you knew of the possible problem" line to on sell the animal that was sent back at a later date?

Hasn't this been bashed to death enough already???

Don't want one, not sure wether to get one, but I heard this about them and I heard that about them.....it's really simple...DONT GET ONE!

[deleted]

These forums are a reference for knowledge for people, where they should be able to get some honest answers.
You can bet that even if the people on here are all top grade, no1 respectable breeders of nothing but quality animals, what about all the other sellers that just put adds on say petlink or Trader? I am giving you a chance to put some thought into what is coming down the line, to try and maintain some ethics and decency before these things start to get pumped out by the truckload. The problem is that only one person seems ready to talk about and show the real issues. Not a real good sign for pro jag.

 

[aussie-albino]

Well stated Roger and Slimebo it about sums it up the information on the neuro issues is out in the open people will make their own decisions whether they buy one or not with whatever arrangements they have made with the seller guarantee wise. I think anything longer than a week would be to long a week would cover any stress caused by freight. If we want them we buy them if we don't we won't, circles won't change it.

cheers
Scott

 

[cement]

it is also misleading to say that they ALL have major,life threatening neuro issues when they don't.
i still say there is a much,much higher risk of diamonds dieing from DPS then jags getting life debilatating neuro issues.i wonder why diamond breeders aren't being condemed for breeding diamonds.when mine died from DPS i didn't start hate threads.
if my jag did start developing severe neuro issues ,i'd be the first to state it and i'd just consider myself unlucky. no point getting worked up over it. the old saying,if you dont like them ,dont by them.
i also didn't buy my jag to make a squillion dollars as some people have stated.if that was the case i would have bought a male. i saw the one i liked ,it just happened to be a female so i bought her.all my animals are pets ,first and foremost.if issues develop later in life and a had to euthanaise her,i'd be sad because i lost a pet ,not because i lost $3000.then i'd move on.i know the potential risk and took a chance.i just don't agree with the "Jag haters club" making such a beat up over it and they dont even own one to realise they are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Well Slimebro, I started this thread to discuss without getting personal, but you seem very put out that that it was started.
There are other issues to discuss with these animals too, moral and ethical issues.
And the fact that some "believed to be" pillars of the herp hobby are sanctioning the spread of these illegally imported, genetically mutated snakes into our country.
I am not asking for or interested in your personal story. Why do you feel like you need to justify yourself? You could just discuss here without ever bringing up the fact that you went through blah ,blah

 

[PimmsPythons]

Well stated Roger and Slimebo it about sums it up the information on the neuro issues is out in the open people will make their own decisions whether they buy one or not with whatever arrangements they have made with the seller guarantee wise. I think anything longer than a week would be to long a week would cover any stress caused by freight. If we want them we buy them if we don't we won't, circles won't change it.

cheers
Scott

Hi Scott
i personally doubt that freight would set it off but possible if if it was a highly stressed animal,but it probably would have shown signs already.
i have driven mine from gladstone to the goldcoast for their expo.she had a big day with over 3500 people coming through,then we drove home.then we did the same for the ipswich scales and tails festival and had no issues.she was also at our local queensland reptile expo earlier in the year.i have seen 5 jags at the expos this year and they all looked like they handled the situation well.
the main time i have seen the serious side of the neuro issue is when 2 males are put together and they start combating.i certainly don't advise doing that after watching some video footage.
cheers
simon

 

[Camo]

the situation is blown out of proportion. mine is almost 3yo,no problems,a joy to own. the only people that bag them is the people that don't own them.

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[PimmsPythons]

Well Slimebro, I started this thread to discuss without getting personal, but you seem very put out that that it was started.
There are other issues to discuss with these animals too, moral and ethical issues.
And the fact that some "believed to be" pillars of the herp hobby are sanctioning the spread of these illegally imported, genetically mutated snakes into our country.
I am not asking for or interested in your personal story. Why do you feel like you need to justify yourself? You could just discuss here without ever bringing up the fact that you went through blah ,blah

i'm so sorry to offend you sement.i certainly dont approve of animal smuggling,i have just accepted the fact that they are here to stay no matter how many petty arguments are started. sure they are the prodgeny of an illegal python, but so are the many thousands of "local specific" pythons in the hobby. 90% of these weren't around at the time of the amnisty yet new" Locality" pythons keep popping up each year which were obviously taken illegally from the wild,yet we all turn a blind eye to that.
i certainly dont think i am a Pillar of the hobby .i only breed a couple clutches a season and this season i only put one pair together.hardly going to change the face of the reptile industry.
i'm certainly not getting personal with anyone,just like you i am sharing my view,and my own personal experiences which may help people.no need to get antsy.
cheer up tiger
cheers
simon

 

[remington]

Cement your like a dog with a bone.

 

[aussie-albino]

Hi Simon thanks for sharing that, all that seems like she's faced a bit this year and seems to be coping well, I wouldn't be putting males together to combat so I guess I wont have to deal with that issue , I get concerned enough when my female Bredlis tries to snack on her husband . The neuro issues haven't turned me off the opportunity to own such spectacular animal , I think I agree with Roger's attitude of offering the same as you would on a normal animal. I think if I sent a healthy animal and on the slight chance it arrived in a different condition than that in which it was when I sent it for any reason (I've heard of pythons arriving dead after air freight to regional airports, I've never had any issues though with air freight) I think I would offer a refund for my peace of mind.

cheers
Scott

 

[ad]

i personally doubt that freight would set it off but possible if if it was a highly stressed animal,but it probably would have shown signs already.

Hey Simon,
You personally doubt airfreight could set a jag into neuro issues? I think you need to research what is happening in the local jag scene a little harder, this has been why we are debating.
A customer was airfreighted a jag that set it off into neuro so bad it was returned, euthanized and refunded.
This is where the debate has started from.
Cheers
Adam