Cane toad virus

[alex_c]

Do we in this country, have the right to engineer ' viruses' to control our pest species?
I f so, how are we going to contain said virus and stop it spreading over sea's to where our 'pests' are native animals, and thus in danger of our engineered virus?

mixomitosis and calicivirus worked and didnt effect overseas populations of rabbits.we need to stop these toads asap otherwise alot of native animals will be lost. i know V.Panoptes are al ready extinct due to toads. redbelly blacks will be wiped out by them too eventually among other species.

 

[bump73]

Oh thats one of my favourate kind of fishing, so strong, and they bite again straight after you throw them back.

I thought it was illegal to throw them back:?:?

Ben

 

[Mrs I]

I thought it was illegal to throw them back:?:?

Ben

So did I

Mrs I

xxx

 

[HoffOff]

I thought it was illegal to throw them back:?:?

Ben

It is But he might have a Private Dam and Witch then it is not ileagal=)

 

[Miss_Croft]

I thought it was illegal to throw carp back (Private dam or other wise).

But – I do not think carp are as bad as some might suggest. Cane toads on the other hand will wipe out many of the Australian reptiles, amphibian, marsupials and bird species. Carp are not poisonous and do not kill things that mouth (Not eat but grab in their mouth). Cane toads do.

This is how I see it:
Carp eat grass and water weed
Redfin eat native fish eggs (Read wipe out native fish)
Trout eat native fish (Read are responsible for nearly wiping out MANY native fish)
Redfin lay their eggs in water weed
Carp = less redfin = less native fish eggs eaten = more native fish = better for native fish

Lets put it a different way – if you go to an area in the Murry Darling that had many redfin – you would not catch many native fish. Then carp came and their population peaked (Read plague of carp) – now many of those areas the native fish are back in numbers and size.

Also carp is called Christmas fish in some countries as it is the “treat” they eat at Christmas. I have eaten carp and don’t have an issue with the flavor, texture, smell or what ever – the only issue was with the bones (hard to fillet).

Now brings the third point – fishing industries all around the world are in decline – People have turned to cage fish raising – the only issue is that raising caged fish needs fish meal – if carp are so bad – breed so fast whey don’t the authorities allow the farming of carp of fish meal?

 

[falconboy]

so carp are good for nothing.

Nope, they are great fertiliser.

 

[junglepython2]

Carp through their feeding habits have a huge effect on the river systems, they might not directly eat native fish, but cause reduced water quality which affects everything else in the system. They should all be disposed of once caught.

 

[addy]

I thought it was illegal to throw them back:?:?

Ben

It is i know that, but where i catch them it is also illegal to go fishing...So it's kinda like two negatives makes a positive. Besides it's an isolated pond and if i were to keep them all there would be none left to fish,,,what fun is that?

 

[arielle]

Hmmm... releasing a virus doesnt sound like such a good idea to me. I mean, what do the people who make these decisions know anyway? Wasnt it the same school of thought who decided it would be a good idea to release the toads in the first place? And just because it worked well in another country doesnt mean it will work here too (again, same principle as releasing the cane toads in the first place).

On my opinion, the matter needs to be SERIOUSLY thought out before anything is done. Introducing viruses, or anything for that matter, isnt something to be taken lightly.

On the other hand, if this really was thought out carefully, it could be the only chance we have to get rid of the cane toads effectively. But they could also just become immune and make matters a whole lot worse.

 

[Miss_Croft]

Arielle - I think we will hear the virus has gotten out and there is nothing anyone can do about it. It was the same with rabbits (Calici virus), the same with 8 types of rust from France for killing black berries.

I agree we have to be very careful when we start to play around with viruses – they can mutate and do heaps of bad things.

But on the other hand – cane toad = extinction of many types of animals – the government has to do something to reduce their impact.

 

[sockbat]

Is this going to be like myxomatosis in rabbits. I'd be sceptical. But hats off if it works.

 

[sockbat]

Nope, they are great fertiliser.

I'll second that

 

[Frozenmouse]

all of the studies show that populations of native species recover after the initial wave of toads come through and then the populations recover to much smaller numbers due to competition with the toads
but the toads are not responsible for any extinctions.
Much like cats they cant work out weather or not it was the cats that damaged all of the small native mammal populations or the intreoduction of cattle/sheep and other agriculture as this all occured at the same time.

 

[benjemen]

I hope this virus doesnt effect the State of Origin:shock:

 

[Miss_Croft]

Dabool - I think the cane toad impact has been under stated - Many of the frog eating animals have been hit hard and do not appear to be coming back.

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cane-toad-2005/pubs/cane-toad-control.pdf

Cane Toads do reduce after the initial wave but still kill many animals (snakes, monitors, frogs, turtles, crocs and marsupials).

Like the Indian Minor – the impact of cane toads has been under stated – for one reason – the authorities do not see any way of controlling it – counting and playing with statistic is better than managing the problem).

The report from James Cook University was from someone who wanted more funding to fight other invasive pests.

 

[cris]

Does anyone have links to any scientific papers or other good info on cane toad control or the impact they have?

Is their a accurate list somewhere of all species that have died as a result of eating canetoads?

Miss_Croft, Carp are easily as bad as canetoads, dont see any point in debating about it. The points you raise suggest you should learn more about carp, they are very destructive critters. Carp, redfin, tilapia, Gambusia and trout are all very bad fish in Australia.

all of the studies show that populations of native species recover after the initial wave of toads come through and then the populations recover to much smaller numbers due to competition with the toads
but the toads are not responsible for any extinctions.

They may not be responsible for any entire species becoming extinct(maybe?), but there sure have played a major role in the localised extinctions of many species. What you are saying would be correct in many cases though.

 

[cris]

]The report from James Cook University was from someone who wanted more funding to fight other invasive pests.

The trick would be to have a title like "The Effect of Global Warming on Canetoad Distribution" for the funding application thingy. That would help get some funding...

 

[Miss_Croft]

Cris – can you define one animal facing extinction due to Carp?

I am sure you can name more than 10 for each for cane toads, cats and foxes.

I would also put Indian Minors in the same buckets as cats, foxes and cane toads.

"The Effect of Global Warming on Canetoad Distribution" - there is a good paper about this - I think from WA

 

[Chimera]

I can't quote sources but I do know that the combination of Dam management and introduced fish have severely impacted native river cod. The issue is partly due to the disruption of breeding cycles due to cold water being pumped from the bottom of the dam when water is released downstream disrupting circannual breeding cycles. This doesn't seem to affect the introduced fish as much and results in the Cod being displaced in many of it's habitats.

 

[Miss_Croft]

Chimera - I would also suggest part of the native cod issues is due to introduced fish eating their eggs. (Redfin and Trout ). You are right about releasing water - I have read claims that water temperature is impacted over 300km from the release site.

Another major issue native fish have is there is no longer the flooding events - this has a major impact on their breeding cycle.

Back to cane toads - they are much wrose to native animals than carp due to how deadly they are to the Australian native animals.