Could it be

[ronhalling]

We read every week here on the forum tales of intelligence or feelings attributed to our cold blooded friends, and on the whole every suggestion of this is pooh pooed by the mainstream members who use science and fact as their yardstick, but i would like to put forward some personal experience i have just had. A little over 2 weeks ago i suffered a heart attack and spent all but the last couple of days here in Port Macquarie Hospital and Prince of Wales Hospital in Sydney and have had no contact with my 2 10mth old spotties (for some reason they would not let my wife bring them to my room lol), Now according to my wife niether of the spotties moved out of their hides (except to eat) the whole time i was away, these 2 (Safron & Jasmin) get handled every day for about 45 minutes each and are always waiting at around 1pm every day on top of their hides for me to get them out, (learned behaviour you might say........ maybe) but as soon as i got home and said something to my wife they were out of their hides banging away at the top of their click clacks with their heads wanting out (coincidence............ maybe) after i got them out they spent the next 30 minutes exploring me all over, not taking any notice of each other in their endeavor to check me out all over (usually they will have a go at each other if out together) So that has been the scene here for the last couple of days with them consistantly competing for my attention. The 6 year old Coastal (Cinaman) is like "so you have been away have you,? i did not notice....where is my Rat ? lol. I might be reading too much into the situation over the time i was away, but wouldn't it be nice if they actually did miss me ?? Anyone else with similar stories to relate ?? .......................................Ron

 

[longqi]

We have so much to learn about actions reactions and interactions between humans and snakes

I definitely believe that science will be proved wrong about this in the future

We often take snakes to people with disabilities
Give a snake to a kid with autism or bad adhd and watch what happens
Within minutes both the snake and the kid get very calm
Why??
Give a fidgety snake to a blind person
Exactly the same thing happens
Why??

 

[Bluetongue1]

Sorry to hear about the health issues Ron. I hope you are well on the way to recovery.

Longqi, I believe science will prove it correct in the future in terms of the interactions many reptiles are capable of. Done correctly, as it really has to be to be valid, it will also sort out the fact from the fiction.

However, there are things in the spiritual realm that science cannot be used to prove or disprove as the very nature of such phenomema is simply not to the tools of science. People can and are justly dismissive of anything spiritual if it is outside their range of experiences.

 

[Jimie]

i beileve very strongly that each and every reptile has there own personality and i also beileve that they are somewhat intelligent my experience with my male md has been he is fine with a male person taking him from another male person but if he is with a female person good luck getting him away from her if your male

 

[Pythoninfinite]

"but wouldn't it be nice if they actually did miss me ??"

Now Ron, the above just about sums it up for me... Unfortunately it shoots any objectivity you may have in interpreting behaviour right in the foot! I have another view about dependent animals too - domestic pets OK, but I hate the thought of these non-domestic pets becoming dependent on humans in any emotional sense, it is simply crippling for them if it happens (and I don't believe it does with snakes - it may do with some of the more intelligent lizards...) Even as a birdkeeper, I hated seeing single parrots so bonded to one person that they were unable to function if that person wasn't there for them. It makes them quite neurotic and very vulnerable to the vagaries of human behaviour. For this reason I always kept my birds in pairs (at least) and kept the "bonding" to a minimum.

To me it always points to the human being the needy one...

Bad & good luck about the cardiac event Ron - sorry you had it, but at least you survived with a significant warning, many don't. I had one too in 2005, minimal damage, but a bit of a wake-up, although it runs in my mother's side genetically. Hope you continue to repair... you'll have a lifetime of pills to take now unfortunately, the statins (Lipitor) are the worst - give you all sorts of side effects such as muscle weakness, muscle & joint pain...

Jamie

 

[nicko51]

I'm just amazed at how closely bonded my two recently acquired Coastals are, mating season notwithstanding.

I have them in the same enclosure at present and they spend lots of time just lying together, heads beside each other and just appear to enjoy each others company.

Nick

 

[Skippii]

Very interesting read...

First up, Ron I'm so glad to hear you're alright! Must have been terrifying, but we're all happy you've gotten through it and are still here with us. I'm sending lots of e-hugs your way (I hear I give excellent e-hugs!)

Secondly... I always love hearing stories like yours, stories that indicate that our scaly friends might have the ability to feel something (other than 'I'm hungry!'). I'm on the fence as far as actually believing it, because there is also a lot of scientific evidence that indicates that they don't have that ability.

I've always had a little difficulty with the concept that my critters had absolutely no feelings towards me (besides viewing me as the almighty hand that brings a never ending supply of weekly meals, and brings them out to explore the vast lawn), I guess because it's hard to believe that i could care so much for something without being cared about in return.

At the end of the day, I definitely believe that there is a LOT that science doesn't (and maybe never will) understand about the way reptiles (and other animals) think/feel.. Which I think is a good thing. Mystery gives us a chance to imagine/hope for something.. It can be comforting, and if nothing else, it keeps life interesting.

x

 

[longqi]

I had one too in 2005, minimal damage, but a bit of a wake-up, although it runs in my mother's side genetically. Hope you continue to repair... you'll have a lifetime of pills to take now unfortunately, the statins (Lipitor) are the worst - give you all sorts of side effects such as muscle weakness, muscle & joint pain...

Jamie

Jamie
This is really interesting
I had a series of heart attacks in 2009?
Because it nothing like you see on tv I didnt know what was going on
Ended up in Townsville hospital with 4 stents
Had to take plavix lipitor aspirin and 2 other pills forever
Or so they said

Im not real big on pills or quacks
Got bored feeling tired and aching so stopped taking them

Last trip to Darwin and NZ went to 3 different doctors for check ups
They all started out by being horrified at my actions
All told me no need to start again with lipitor plavix etc
BP Cholestrol heart/lung capacity/recovery all damn good for my age

Now I take 1 aspirin a day if I remember
Science has a lot to learn even about us
Peter

 

[breannew]

Hope all is well, and that your on your way to a fast recovery!

Ive had two encounters with my now reptiles to where there was an odd bonding moment.
My ball python now, I bought a year ago from a rescue shop. I asked to handle one that seem very intrested in me(i was looking rather close into his tank) whenn handed to me he slithered right up and smelt (to me it seemed like he was giving me a kiss) and then proceed to cuddle up to me right up into my neck. The store guy asked me if I visit frequently and if I handle him often because of how well he took to me and he's never seen that happen with anyone. He w is a big suck and enjoys cuddling while I skim trough books and gets up every morning to see me leave dor work.
As for my beardie, he's just as needy as my dogs. Fights for my attention non stop.
I neverbwould have thought that they'd have such huge personalaties.

 

[DisturbedDave]

Hope all is well, and that your on your way to a fast recovery!

Ive had two encounters with my now reptiles to where there was an odd bonding moment.
My ball python now, I bought a year ago from a rescue shop. I asked to handle one that seem very intrested in me(i was looking rather close into his tank) whenn handed to me he slithered right up and smelt (to me it seemed like he was giving me a kiss) and then proceed to cuddle up to me right up into my neck. The store guy asked me if I visit frequently and if I handle him often because of how well he took to me and he's never seen that happen with anyone. He w is a big suck and enjoys cuddling while I skim trough books and gets up every morning to see me leave dor work.
As for my beardie, he's just as needy as my dogs. Fights for my attention non stop.
I neverbwould have thought that they'd have such huge personalaties.

I think it depends hugely on the person's attitude towards snakes/dragons. My EWD's have such huge personalities, jumping over eachother, getting to the closest part of the enclosure to me and tilting their head to the side whenever I'm around. But I had a friend over and she is terrified of reptiles, and was quite afraid of my dragons. It's almost like they sensed it, as whenever she was near the enclosure, they would back themselves into a corner.
I don't believe this is a 'stranger' thing either, as my brother who, like me, isn't the least bit afraid, could put his hand in the enclosure and they didn't move at all.

So in a way, I believe they feel comfortable around us if we feel comfortable around them. This then leads to bonding with those people and a gain in trust.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

longqi, I had my cardiac event in 2003, when I was driving home (no snake on the steering wheel ) and I knew what was happening straight away, so stopped at my doctor's surgery within a few minutes. She took the primary actions straight away, and I was on stented (3) and on the ward in RPH within 2 hours. Home again in 2 days. The last few years I was feeling less & less well, especially in the mornings - muscle weakness, joint pain etc was getting worse all the time, felt like I was 80yo. Had a look on the net and figured it could be Lipitor. Stopped it for a few days and within 48 hours felt very much better. I still take aspirin, beta blockers & ACE inhibitors, but Lipitor was making my life a misery.

The specialists never tell you that, but one look on the web will tell you what these drugs can do - they affect nearly every metabolic pathway in your body. I'm looking at other ways to lower my cholesterol.

Otherwise everything seems to be going fine...

Jamie

 

[andynic07]

Sorry to hear about your health Ron but good to see that you are a bit better mate. It has been a little while since I have seen you on here, I hope everything is going good for you. It is good that you are getting time to spend with your snakes and hope it helps with your recovery.

Andy

 

[longqi]

Mine was a lot different
first one I was using a brush cutter
just couldnt breathe
thought it was heat stroke etc
jumped in a daintree to cool off
mates had to lift me out
after an hour or so seemed ok
had a few coldies went home
week later same thing
then every day for a few days
went to internet cafe to check symptoms
cairns base hospital next stop
cant operate there so had to go townsville
but roads blocked with floods
so had to wait a week or so

that bit was pretty nerve wracking

this is me a week ago in borneo chasing mangrove snakes
so worked for me

 

[DisturbedDave]

Mine was a lot different
first one I was using a brush cutter
just couldnt breathe
thought it was heat stroke etc
jumped in a daintree to cool off
mates had to lift me out
after an hour or so seemed ok
had a few coldies went home
week later same thing
then every day for a few days
went to internet cafe to check symptoms
cairns base hospital next stop
cant operate there so had to go townsville
but roads blocked with floods
so had to wait a week or so

that bit was pretty nerve wracking

this is me a week ago in borneo chasing mangrove snakes
so worked for me

Judging by the photo, you're doing a hell of a lot better! Good to see.

 

[izzys1]

I had a strange event today with my male spotted. He is coming up to shed but had crapped everywhere so I had him out to clean. I took him outside to enjoy the sun He was quite happy with his head up near my neck and body resting in the sun. My 4 year old niece asked if she could hold him which she does often and he freaked wrapping around both her hands and holding on tight. I took him back and he relaxed straight away again, she tried again, unhappy snake. Don't know if he could sense she wasn't as confident or not? I will experiment again once he has shed.

 

[ronhalling]

"but wouldn't it be nice if they actually did miss me ??" Now Ron, the above just about sums it up for me... Unfortunately it shoots any objectivity you may have in interpreting behaviour right in the foot! I have another view about dependent animals too - domestic pets OK, but I hate the thought of these non-domestic pets becoming dependent on humans in any emotional sense, it is simply crippling for them if it happens (and I don't believe it does with snakes - it may do with some of the more intelligent lizards...) Even as a birdkeeper, I hated seeing single parrots so bonded to one person that they were unable to function if that person wasn't there for them. It makes them quite neurotic and very vulnerable to the vagaries of human behaviour. For this reason I always kept my birds in pairs (at least) and kept the "bonding" to a minimum. To me it always points to the human being the needy one... Bad & good luck about the cardiac event Ron - sorry you had it, but at least you survived with a significant warning, many don't. I had one too in 2005, minimal damage, but a bit of a wake-up, although it runs in my mother's side genetically. Hope you continue to repair... you'll have a lifetime of pills to take now unfortunately, the statins (Lipitor) are the worst - give you all sorts of side effects such as muscle weakness, muscle & joint pain... Jamie

Jamie, I think i know what you mean about the Lipitor m8, i feel like a 70 year old, they have me on Clopidogrel (Plavix) Lipitor and Cartia (Asprin) but i have been on them for such a short time my Doc won't even entertain the idea of removing the Lipitor from my regime just yet till we get some more blood work done. Thank you all for the best wishes and PM's i received, it was very uplifting, and Skippii your E-HUGS are deff the best, made me feel better just reading it xxx ................................Ron