debate about smacking children

[moosenoose]

I'm amazed there has been such a big deal made out of it lately, especially when severe assaults are made on kids by their own parents, some even murdered! And then only to see the culprits (the parents committing these atrocities) get a little smack on the wrist from big brother. Bit of a severe double standard when they're trying to ham this topic up I feel.

I suppose the interesting point is what is a deterrent for a child?? Money means nothing to them as a young age, so you can't fine them. The naughty-corner is only good if the kid agrees with it from the start, otherwise they're going to say no and tell you to go to hell :lol: Then what??? ......It worked for me, and it's worked for my kids. There is an element of respect simply because they know if the boundary is crossed it's going to be a little unpleasant. The next thing they're going to say is that I'm not allowed to raise my voice at them! :lol: ....but do you really know what? Who trained me to be a parent?? Not the old man that's for sure! My kids have got it pretty damned good as far as I'm concerned. They've been treated nothing like I was.

It's not easy being a parent at times. Sure it has plenty of rewards, but it's difficult none-the-same. Where was my training in dealing with the kids when they were handed to me at the hospital?? No textbook given to me...although I'm not good with instruction manuals probably would have lost it before I got them home anyway I suppose a school course on human/child psychology would have done me wonders, but...... 8) Generally the only thing most/all parents have to arm themselves for parenthood is their own firsthand experience that their parents had given them.

Oh did I mention that kids can be quite frustrating at times?? Sometimes its not like the traffic jam that you can simply drive through, this one follows you on a daily basis at times

I think our current society as a whole has some severe problems with it. A lack of discipline has led to an unprecedented arrogance, and I'm sure many cops working on the streets will confirm this (not only what they see directed to others, but also themselves). There is also a visible lack of respect for anyone and everyone, and the laws are too relaxed and do not serve any deterrent to these sorts of people who have clearly led a life of indiscipline- something I think can be slapped fairly at the feet of the parents who "raised" them.

Corporal punishment at schools wasn't a bad thing either as far as I'm concerned. For a parent to turn around and say "nobody should be punishing LIttle Johnny but me" doesn't really cut it when the kid is 18, out of the home and then completely out of control. I'm sure the other prisoners he gets tossed in with at the lock-up won't be as gentle as dear mummy was 8)

...anyway....just my unremitting, unbiased, self-opinionated view on why kids require a little further interaction than just mere words and reasoning. Isn’t there the saying “actions speak louder than words”?? :lol: :lol:

 

[Vixen]

I think kids and everyone rallying against smacking need to harden up! Seriously. I may be young myself but even now there is definitely a noticeable difference starting in the younger children, most are absolute brats nowadays which I find very sad.

I was flogged with wooden spoons, everyone my age I know was also flogged with wooden spoons, and we grew up fine did we not? As someone said previously, other forms of discipline don't seem to work with some children, and smacking is necessary.

What is the world coming to.

 

[m_beardie]

uh oh.. i hope no one from the other school is viewing this thread. there are some very good arguments. any points on my side? (even though i don't really agree with the affirmative side )

 

[FAY]

Some kids you can reason with, some you can't.
Some only understand a smack.....

We all got walloped when we were kids, didn't do us any harm. But like anything, some parents have to go overboard..

 

[pythonmum]

I think you will find that many in favour of smacking basically are like the above: I got smacked and I'm fine. Kids are brats now. Nothing else works.
You will be hard pressed to find any studies in favour of smacking. I know that some people in education (I'm a teacher) are sad that you can't use the cane anymore, but I think this is more of a reflection on their frustration. I know that pythondad found it much less painful to get the cane than to spend a weekend doing an assignment.

 

[swaddo]

i agree with sarah (where did that post go?!). My wife is a teacher and has been physically assaulted by "kids" while at work. they got a timeout at the principles office, and she had months of counselling. little wondershe wont teach high school kids any more.

Some kids are great, brought up with a respect for others and some idea of what it means to live among other people, others need a bloody good smack upside the head ... they have no idea and no respect!

 

[grizz]

crack

As a kid I got a wack when needed but I think most people see a good swift kick in the pants as the only way to get their point across. I see this as a tool that can be used if felt required but kids now are brought up much differently to many of us (I'm only 29). Many of my peers had only one parent in full time employment and therefore had much tighter restrictions on our social interaction.

With parents not always being able to provide the time for thier children, many see $$$$ as a way of making the up the balance for limited parental interaction. This can lead off on all sorts off tangents and I believe also contributes to the immediate gratification issues we see in many of today's youth...

So to cut a long story short, a wack on the kyber will only work if boundaries are set and the child respects where the smack is coming from.

 

[grannieannie]

I agree with Jax, though I did smack till they were about 8 or so. I NEVER used a wooden spoon, always thought that was dangerous. We were smacked with a strap at school and at home...looking back it didn't do us any harm. I think the trouble with a lot of troubled young people today is that they've never had restrictions put on them, never had a clear definition of right and wrong...discipline of some sort has got to be good. ..... I could go on and on...but won't.

 

[swaddo]

I think you will find that many in favour of smacking basically are like the above: I got smacked and I'm fine. Kids are brats now. Nothing else works.
You will be hard pressed to find any studies in favour of smacking. I know that some people in education (I'm a teacher) are sad that you can't use the cane anymore, but I think this is more of a reflection on their frustration. I know that pythondad found it much less painful to get the cane than to spend a weekend doing an assignment.

I disagree with your initial premise.

I believe that if kids take you seriously when you say you will discipline them for bad behaviour, then 9 times out of 10 you don't actually have to do much at all. You do have to be prepared to carry through with it if they call your bluff though. Problem is that the way things are going if they call your bluff there will soon be bugger all you can do. Kids have a working understanding of assault and litigation ... it is already that way in schools. I have sat by and watched the (lack of) discipline regime in schools these days and it is a farce. The kids run riot, and the school cant do squat.

 

[Rox.n.Lix]

Not much to help you out for your affirmative argument hey m_beardie?

i might try to go along the lines of, some parents not knowing where to draw the line.

While i agree with 1 smack in sever circumstances of acting out (i had them when i was little and they worked!)

Some parents will take advantage of 'acceptable smacks', and dole them out when the situation doesnt call for it or a non-violent resolution could be acheived.

who will say where to draw the line? who says when a smack is justified and when it isnt?

this is a very subjective line, and i think thats where you need to draw your argument.

good luck!!

 

[redbellybite]

children under a certain age do not understand consequences...so a smack will get a result ..
once they are of an age where you can reason with them and offer choices ..and explain the consequences of their actions if they refuse to go by the set of rules you set for them ,things can change from a physical punishment to more of a material ,like taking something away or not letting them attend etc ...smaking is a form of communication ,wether the do gooders want to understand this or not ,maybe they have the lower IQ ...even in the animal world ,you watch a mother or even father of young animals ,they give a verbal warning ,like a growl or a roar etc ...the bub may listen to that and stop what ever they are doing ,but if it chooses not to listen then the next thing is a swipe by a paw or a grab around the scruff of the neck and a physical response is taken ..the young soon get the picture to stop it ...
Police now have less force because of less fear then they had when we were young ,coppers were still allowed to toe us in the bum and drag us home by the ear to our parents ...these days half the bloody parents and police and school teachers are scared of kids ...and then they wonder whats the world coming to ...DISCIPLINE only works when its consistant, and consistant doesnt mean ABUSE ...and as others have said there is a difference between smaking and bashing....

 

[TahneeMaree]

cane, jug cord etc bring it all back kids these days are little brats... speaking of brats, take the toys and shove them down the toilet! Kick the kids outside let them run a muck in the yard etc... there's a general lack of respect for their elders and anyone in a position of power over them and they KNOW they're getting away with it too... just going by how I was raised, stick your nose out, get it chopped off without fail...

so yeah, I agree with smacking... within reason, on the hands, bum, back of the legs... where it'll sting without causing any actuall damage and like RBB said upto a certain age/maturity where they understand that their actions WILL have a consequence, confiscation(spelling) of toys, banning of events/freedoms etc.

 

[redbellybite]

I'm strict with my kids, but didn't need to spank or hit. I smacked a hand once - when I'd lost it, not when it was a horrible act. The kids don't remember, but I do.

This recent article describes an international research project and suggests that smacking/spanking is associated with lower IQ. This doesn't mean smacking causes low IQ, it could be the case that less intelligent folks are more likely to use smacking. In any case, the difference is large enough that countries where smacking is normal have lower national IQ scores. Interesting reading and good ammunition for a debate.

Link removed - see full text below.

they also did a so called study that ..kids who ate alot of sweets were more likely to turn into criminals ...
ITS ALL BULLCRAP SPECULATION ...instead of worrying what a bloody smack can do ..why dont they focus on teaching new parents COMMONSENSE ...then hopefully and just maybe that can then be passed down to their offspring ,who will realise that all these so called studies ..are as useful as tits on a bull ...as the old saying goes ...spare the rod spoil the child .

 

[spongebob]

It's interesting how our own upbringing colours our opinions.

The "it never did me any harm, so it wont harm my kids" is a tired and old argument.

I was never smacked and neither was either of my parents (born in the 1920's) and I'm guessing going back through the generations it was not considered necessary for my ancestors.

There is ample research to prove that there are more effective means of discipline, but those who were hit as children seem to have the greatest difficulty hearing the logic. Perhaps they need to stay loyal to their own parents.

We call it a smack but if we do this to an adult it is illegal. Yet to do to the same to a child is to 'spare the rod to spoil the child', and considered good medicine.

This is illogical

I really cant see how we can continue to justify assaulting the most powerless in our community.

Many countries have now made hittting children illegal, and some of these countries may be considered less 'developed' than Australia.

 

[redbellybite]

sponge bob ...why is it then, that the people like yourself have the problem with us "so called" smackers and low IQ people ,on how we choose to deal with our children"?
You may look upon us as so called brutes and abusers ,,as some are claiming
but then again we look at you as soft and door matish being walked all over by your tantrum chucking 6 year old in the super market ...in reality none of us at all agree with ABUSE of any child ...but a simple smack on the bottom ,should be a personal choice as the parent of that child and no one should be able to tell us how to bring up our kids .

 

[Kersten]

From a moral/ethical point of view this issue is entirely subjective, and you'll never get either side to see the point of the other. However, from a legal point of view, it's black and white; there are no grey areas and it's not open to much, if any, interpretation.

I don't really see the point in "debating" the topic, especially not on a forum like this. It only ends badly, and both sides end up looking ignorant and self righteous.

 

[Fran]

redbellybite - totally agree

 

[bongie555]

i have no problems with smacking kids, i come from a very close, very large family, stubborn naughty kids that dont listen always got smacked but we try to avoid embarrasing the child in front of everyone, usually the child is pulled aside, smacked then given a thorough explanation why and if required made to apologise.
thats where i have a problem, parents who smack their kids and dont talk to them immediately after, often the kid doesnt know what he/she got smacked for.

 

[jessb]

Some arguments for your side:

• Smacking teaches a child that violence gets results - ie "I am bigger than you and if you don't do what I say, I will hit you, then you will do what I say" What kind of message does that send to a child?
• It teaches a child to fear her parents and behave well out of fear
• It doesn't teach a child the consequences of her actions (ie she doesn't pull the dog's tail because she understands that it will hurt the dog, but because she is scared of getting a smack - really we want to encourage them to understand WHY something is unacceptable)
• violence is not acceptable in any other part of our society - how can we teach our children this double standard?
• If we aren't allowed to be violent towards other members of our society, then why is it acceptable to be violent towards the smallest and most vulnerable and powerless members of our families?
• Most parents hit out of their own anger and frustration - effectively you are making your child a punching bag to vent your own emotions.
• When all corporal punishment is limited to "a tap on the bum" after several warnings, then smacking might be acceptable, but as long as thousands of children are abused or killed every year, (look up some sources on NAPCAN) we need to eliminate violence altogether as there are far too many parents who simply don't get it.

 

[jessb]

NB I am the mum of one child and RBB and others of the "wooden spoon" school of parenting, I am not a doormat. I frequently get compliments on how well behaved and polite my daughter is, we reason with her and discuss the consequences of her actions. She is incredibly empathetic and kind to to other kids and animals. She has had maybe three or four absolutely lose-it tantrums in her life and on the very rare occasions when she is overtired and wound up, we just let her stomp off to her room and have a sulk (it's very funny!)

Treating your child with respect, taking the time to explain emotions, consequences and acceptable behaviour, and making reasonable concessions for their age and development isn't "being a doormat" it's being a good parent.