Diamond and natural integrade zone

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Bono888 said:
A wild carpet from just south of Port Maquarie..

Again this comes back to peoples personal interpretations. Bono, you call this a Carpet. I would call it an intergrade. And I have definitley seen snakes just like this advertised as pure diamonds.

Whatever you call it, it is still a locailty pure morelia spilota from the Port Mac area. Whether it is m s Spilota or m s McDowelli is an issue.

Can someone show us the taxonomical difference between the two? E.g. Bredlis have more than 9 scales between the eyes, spilota don't. Or is there just no difference other than appearance and size? If that is the case, then the issue of what subspecies these are is very subjective.
 
Did you not recognise the dog's legs in the photo Pete? Mozzie will be very upset - she likes you! Found dead (snake, not dog...) in my garden the day Matt came up here. A really beautiful animal too, and different again from other intergrades we get around here.

The local vet at Laurieton had a very high orange intergrade with a minor head injury brought in a couple of months ago, but it was released before I could get any photos :(
J.
 
intergrade pythons...

Testing... testing... Pugsley has sent me instructions to post a photo, so if it doesn't work, we know who to blame...

This is a nice looking animal found crossing the road one afternoon outside our place - probably on it's way to my rodent shed!

Jamie

Hooray - I think I did it, but now I just have to learn how to resize... Thanks Steve, now I can REALLY get involved in the Port Macquarie carpet debate!
 
RE: intergrade pythons...

What happened - when I previewed it was there, just BIG! Now it's gone :roll:

J.
 
RE: intergrade pythons...

Take me back to the 20th century and rolls of film please...

J.
 
Testing again...

Here we go again - sorry for wasting time guys...
 
RE: Testing again...

AT LAST... well it was a fairly big snake... now how do I resize?

J.
 
You crack me up Jamie :lol: Makesure Pete gives you lessons when you are down :lol:

Was'nt sure if you would appreciate me giving specific location Jamie. Kept it very vauge just incase :wink: Got Pete :D Ann myself :shock:

It was a beautiful python. One I would be very happy with in my colection.
 
No worries Matt - thanks for the consideration. Quiet day in the office???

Cheers mate & see you Sunday!

J.
 
Absolutely beautiful Jamie. That ought to increase the size of the intergrade fan club.

Work keeps getting in the way of APS :evil:

Is Mozzie coming for the ride?
 
Previously I wrote:-
General consensus suggests that the northern contact zone is around Coffs Harbour.

:oops: Sorry guys, I didn't read the question properly, as I was in a rush and had a significant toddler + baby factor at the time, which I'm sure some of you will understand.

Anyway, obviously I thought the question was, where is the contact zone of M. s. mcdowelli & M. s. spilota.



To answer the question this time, my understanding is that the approximate northern limit of Diamonds is the Manning River (Taree).

However you guys are much better qualified to answer this question, as you're the herpers living in the area.
I've heard that in some areas you can get very Diamond looking specimens in a predominantly Intergrade population, with the occasional Carpet looking individual. From memory I think it was in the Port Macquarie area. I'll double check the source.


Having said that, there's a record of a Diamond being found at Coffs Harbour and another in the upper reaches of the Macleay River. But these are rare & isolated, so may be anomalies.
I've even read Steven Swanson write that Diamonds are found as far north as Byron Bay but I find this hard to believe.
Recently on this site a couple of members have reported seeing Diamonds in south east QLD but surely these are escapees or releases.

What do you guys reckon?



:idea: This is highly controversial, but I reckon that intergrades should be elevated to subspecies status and named Morelia spilota intermedia.
I'm a splitter though. Some would prefer to have all the Morelia spilota rid of all subspecies altogether.

Recent DNA analysis has shown Diamonds to be distinct and when this is published we will probably see Diamonds become a seperate species as bredli has become.


Great pics by the way guys 8)


Cheers John :)
 
I've even read Steven Swanson write that Diamonds are found as far north as Byron Bay

Correction, I meant to quote Greame Gow (in 'Snakes of Australia').
I've got their combined edition of 1977.


..from Byron Bay in the north almost to the Victorian border in the south.
 
Thanks, I've got the seperate books as well but the combined edition is well worn from over 20 years of use. It was one of my best books as a teenager. One of my faves for sure.

Have you seen the Diamond in it?
One of the most exceptional yellows I've ever seen. Looks pure as the driven snow too. Rare these days.
I know it's not your usual preference in Diamonds but impressive nonetheless.
 
Not bad for one of those ugly yellow ones eh! :wink: :lol:

By the way, I just tracked down a copy of the combined edition for you.
It's for sale in a Brooklyn bookstore, New York, for US$247.94 ( A$325.96) :shock:
 
It was once believed that intergrades only went as far south as Taree. It is now known they are further south then Taree. The southern line appears to be from Port Stephens to Karuah and further west to the Barrington Tops.

Pure Diamonds occur south of this line, say from Newcastle to northen coastal Victoria. I have never heard of any pockets of Carpets around Eden. There are however Inland Carpets that go into Victoria, but they are not found on the coast.

Zen, as far as i am aware, the latest DNA on Eastern Carpets(spilota) shows they are all the same species. Bredli and South Western Carpets are the only other forms that are distint species from spilota. There are suttle differences between the sub species of spilota , but they are the same overall species.

You will often find Pythons from Taree to Coffs that are very Diamond like in appearence, but if they are in this zone they are still intergrades. Pure Carpets start north of Coffs. By the time you travel to Grafton only 80klms north you only find pure Carpets. I have never heard of Diamonds from Byron, and would imagine this was report by a local person who always confuse Diamonds and Carpets.
 
Here is a picture of a big integrade I had when I was a kid - It's eating a rabbit.It came from a farm north of Port Macquarie. Sorry about the quality, the photos about 20 years old and faded a bit.

Sten
 
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