Diamonds and Temperature

[OuZo]

It's my understanding that during winter when the pythons cool themselves they'll still come out and sun themselves. They don't just hold up in a dark cave and sleep.

Actually that's a good point Vat...I thought aussie pythons didn't actually "hibernate" as such where they would sleep for a month or so but instead they will take the opportunity to come out and bask if there's a bit of sun etc?

 

[spooky]

I am definately no expert, but that is what I've heard about Diamonds, that in winter they still come out and bask every day! We watch ours in the avairy, when it gets to about 23c they start moving to the cool hideboxes, this weather they are out basking all day. They come from our area!

 

[The Rock]

heres some of my captive bred young

 

[The Rock]

Yes, you guessed it its Rob Mcleod here,(although I wish people would spell my name correctly).I have being using this method for many years and have never lost a Diamond to the syndome.I have watched in horror,many Diamonds die in the care of people who refuse to do the same even when told it is the best way.(in my opinion the only way), unless of course you live in Diamond country and have them set up properly in an aviary.
I usally start cooling them properly during there second winter. The first year they have acsess to heat all winter but they must still have acsess to room temp. When set up this way they will feel day and night temp variations and seasonal variations.This cannot be done very well when using thermosats as the heat must be constant and thermostats tend to turn on and off to much.None of my collection are kept using thermostats, in my opinion they should only be used for incubating eggs. Keeping reptiles on thermostat regulated heat is in my opinion a recipie for disaster.Dont get me started on thermostats they are useless for breeding,expensive, and in most cases dont allow enough temp gradient in the enclosure. Throw away your thermostats and do your animals a favor. NOW!!!!.
My method must work as Ive repeatdly over the years bred most aussie pythons and a fair numder of different elapeids, as well as brown and common tree snakes(blue black and green forms).
Im hopless at typing so if any one wants more indept info on my opinion please call--Rob Mcleod on 0408461471

 

[Linus]

Yep I'm not having a go either but would love to hear about he anecdotal evidence you have. This has been thrown about since I have been a member on APS and nobody has ever had a firm answer.

So it would be very useful if you can expand on your comments please.

And someone asked earlier and I'd also like to know what age you start cooling. I guess juvenile are forced to brumate in the wild but I have been told not to cool them in captivity. Can you confirm that?

Cheers

sorry your answer came while i waswriting the above thanks.

 

[spooky]

Just think of 'McLeod's Daughters'

 

[Kenshin]

i think he means his evidence is that it has worked well for him in the past for various spp of pythons and he has done it on his diamonds to no ill effect that is fair enough to if it works and his animals are healthy then u cant really drill him for it can ya?

 

[OuZo]

How do you not overheat cages without a thermostat? Just by using a low wattage light on in daylight hours or sumthin?

 

[The Rock]

Yes in the wild Diamonds will bask on sunny days. IN THE WILD !!!!. Your animals are not in the wild and trying to mimick nature in captivaty is all most imposible and dangerous. I have being doing this to Diamonds for many years well before any litrature from the states was avaiable. Belive me about all this or not, I dont really care, but your diamonds will. And yes you do get the odd Diamond the will live a bit longer, but I bet that most of the so called over 10 year Diamonds were wild caught as adults.
Rob

 

[Hickson]

Throw away your thermostats and do your animals a favor. NOW!!!!.

Just because no thermostats works for you, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Especially those in the southern States.

Keeping reptiles on thermostat regulated heat is in my opinion a recipie for disaster.

As you say, that's your opinion. There are many other successful breeders that probably have a different opinion to you. I heard Simon Stone give a talk last year that was all about his compulsion for thermostats and temperatures.

and in most cases dont allow enough temp gradient in the enclosure.

That would suggest a problem with enclosure design or thermostat/heating placement.

Just MY opinions.



Hix

 

[Vat69]

I guess I have an advantage in that I live in an area where diamonds are local. I can keep them on natural temps.
Guess we'll see in a few years whether my techniques work or not.
The diamonds I saw were owned by a reputable breeder and were (as I understood it) captive bred.

 

[Hickson]

Yes in the wild Diamonds will bask on sunny days. IN THE WILD !!!!. Your animals are not in the wild and trying to mimick nature in captivaty is all most imposible and dangerous.

Dangerous?
Isn't cooling them down mimicking Nature?
Isn't given them a natural photoperiod mimicking Nature?
Isn't giving them a branch to climb on mimicking Nature?

How is mimicking Nature dangerous? Or is that your justification for stuffing them in the dark in an esky for a few months?

:?

Hix

 

[Guest]

Diamonds and Temerature

Robs methods work and ive phoned him in the past and he has given me advice and i have probably been reptile keeping longer than him.He is genuine type bloke and more talented than most with respect to keeping.On this site the blind tend to lead the blind through the land of the thorn and sarason dog partake of righteousness and be led unto the land of milk and honey

 

[Vat69]

Oh I agree that the method works, I know it does. I'm not contesting that. I just would like more info about it being the only way, and why it's the only way.

My posts are in no way intended to be a personal attack. I'm just curious and am the first to admit I've never done studies into 'DPS'.

 

[The Rock]

RE: Diamonds and Temerature

Thanks Oldfella, for a while there I thought everyone one on this site were novice herps.People need to read and absorb not read any forget.Cooling,photoperiod,and branches if you must are not mimicking nature to the full extent only making life closer to the norm for them.The cooling is different,most branches are just that branches not trees,photoperiod is about the closest and well thats just common sense is it not.!!!! Most reptiles behave totally different in the wild than in captivity,so its our job to care for them the best way captivity can provide.
Rob

 

[Linus]

I don't think people are having a go at you so much Rob...just curious. Sharing this kind of information can only help to improve quality of life and length of life for our snakes so please continue to put your ideas forward.

And yes alot of us are novices but that does not mean we can't ask questions.

 

[The Rock]

Hey, Hix
Justification thats a big word for a Hix. The proof is in the pudding. Infact when the Diamonds come out of their cooling period they look amazing, which is weird. They look far better than when first put in. As Ive said before any other aussie python would most likely be sick or dead after an ordeal like this. Diamonds on the other hand love it if not thrive on it.
Rob

 

[Guest]

Its interesting the diamond thing rob, the way they were often kept in late 60s and early 70s by a few of us in sydney was outside in big packing containers with glasswindows or converted wooden cubby house buildings etc.The reason behind this was that we thought they would rub there faces on wire and get canker.A friend kept a 9ft coffs carpet and a 9ft diamond from blue mts in his outside setup and they went well for about five or six years and then the diamond (which would be fem)and was big as females are lost weight and declined until finally becoming skinny and dying of canker (the carpet followed later). Never kept my diamonds and carpets long enough to find out either way.I know of a number of cases rob where diamonds and carpets have developed neurological symptoms including lack of co-ordination etc when kept outside and once they get it it follows through the lot i cant explain it :?: Also seen juveniles with the tremors and it doesnt go away they are born with it :?:

 

[beknluke]

Re: RE: Diamonds and Temerature

for a while there I thought everyone one on this site were novice herps

I haven't read the rest of your post yet, but I think that that is an exeptionally presumptous and rude statement Rob.
I will be the first to admit that I am certainly NOT a walking encycolpedia for herps, but I can see that that is sure fire way to get yourself in some strife.
You will more than likely get a call from me, because like most other "novice herpers" around her, I care deeply for my animals and want to do what's right for them. BUT - I think that you need to sit back for a tic and recognise that you are not the only one who supposedly knows what they're doing. :roll:
Please, give the general public a chance - at least they are ASKING for the advise. Now some "novice herper" wouldn't be doing that.
*shakes head*
Good luck on APS Rob

 

[soulweaver]

RE: Re: RE: Diamonds and Temerature

Rob,

when you cool your diamonds during winter do they still feed? have been told that in winter 'some' snakes will still feed, but 16-18 degrees is needed for digestion, but you are talking about cooling below this temp, just wondered your thoughts on this.