Enclosure size

[user 270]

Hopefully I will know by the end of the week if I can get the money to by a snake, so I figure it's time to start asking a few questions.

Firstly. I hear people recommending the use of Click Clack containers to house hatchlings. Can anyone tell me why it is not a good idea to house a hatchling in an "adult" size enclosure?

I can't see anything wrong with it providing you provide a suitable sized hide box.

Secondly. An artical at www.mark.org.au recommends an enclosure size of 2m(long) x 70cm(wide) x 1m(high) for a Diamond Python. My question is: is 1m high enough for an adult Diamond Python?

I like the idea of using a heat lamp at each end to make the snake exercise.

You can read the artical section "Caging:" here:

http://www.mark.org.au/pages/cs_diamondpython.htm

Any tips will be appreciated.

 

[Hickson]

Wombat,

You're gonna hear alot of opinions about this topic. The following are mine.

When snakes hatch they are quite small (obviously) and would make a tasty meal for a large variety of predators. instinctively the hatchies seek cover and spend most of their time hiding. This is a defense mechanism that has evolved over millions of years.

You could put a hatchie in a 2m x 1m x 1m tank, but you'd never see it. If you only gave it a hide box, it would stay in it all day. If you gave it lots of cover (boxes, rocks, plants etc.), you'd still never see it. And it would be harder to find when you needed to find it. Plus you'd be wasting a decent enclosure on an invisible occupant.

Putting it in a Click-Clack has several advantages, not the least being that it's cheap. It's also easy to maintain, and will be less stressful on the hatchie. Buy a larger enclosure when the hatchie gets larger. Or buy a large enclosure and buy an adult to go in it.

Is one metre high enough? If there's enough branches for it to climb on, then one metre will suffice. But, in my opinion, an arboreal type snake should have a vertically oriented cage. 2m high x 1m wide and 1m deep would be better for a Diamond (or any tree-dwelling species). An outdoor aviary would be even better, as long as you provide heat, and maybe bring it/them inside for the Winter - all this depends on where you live. And with an aviary you don't need to worry about whether your snake is getting enough UV.

As I said, these are my opinions, and others will have different views. Listen to them all, then decide for yourself what you want to try.

DISCLAIMER:
I should point out (lest someone think I am an expert) that I don't keep Diamonds, although I do have Coastal Carpets. My opinions have developed over the years through discussions with professional herpetologists and herpetoculturalists, amongst other things.



Hix

 

[user 270]

Thanks Hix. At the moment I am a wannabe snake owner. I don't have any books and most of my research has been on the internet. The rest has come from talking to the owner of the local pet shop.

Here in Horsham, the temps can get down to -3C in winter and 45C is not uncommon in summer.

If I can sell a certain item, I will have around $1000.00 for a complete setup starting from scratch.

 

[Hickson]

I would strongly recommend you buy one or two books prior to getting anything else (snake or enclosure). Or at least borrow some from the local library.

Care of Australian Reptiles in Captivity by John Weigel is a great little book that covers basic husbandry of reptiles in the first chapters before dealing with individual species later in the book.

Keeping Carpet Pythons by Simon Kortlang & Darren Green is another great little publication which, as the title suggests, deals exclusively with the Carpet/Diamond/Bredl's complex.

And Australian Snakes: A Natural History by Rick Shine is an excellent introduction to snakes in the wild.

Any of these books would be an important addition to your library, especially if you plan on keeping snakes for many years to come.



Hix

 

[instar]

like the idea of using a heat lamp at each end to make the snake exercise.

Id try to avoid that mate, you want to create a gradient, warm one end, cool the other, not warm both ends. The snake will still get excersize as it moves about to regulate its temprature. The books mentioned above are excellent, I have them and recommend them. Welcome to the hobby, and to APS, enjoy.

EDIT~ Ah, I see what you meant now about two heat lights, that could work, but seems a bit of a waste of power. If you get your snake out, (for sunlight/uv) it will get plenty of excersise. Eitherway, you'll find what works best for you, but a gradient may be harder to controll by that method if one side hasnt cooled before the other heats up.
Confused now?

 

[user 270]

Re: RE: Enclosure size

I would strongly recommend you buy one or two books prior to getting anything else (snake or enclosure). Or at least borrow some from the local library.

Care of Australian Reptiles in Captivity by John Weigel is a great little book that covers basic husbandry of reptiles in the first chapters before dealing with individual species later in the book.

Keeping Carpet Pythons by Simon Kortlang & Darren Green is another great little publication which, as the title suggests, deals exclusively with the Carpet/Diamond/Bredl's complex.

And Australian Snakes: A Natural History by Rick Shine is an excellent introduction to snakes in the wild.

Any of these books would be an important addition to your library, especially if you plan on keeping snakes for many years to come.



Hix

Thanks Hix. That save me asking another question about recommended books to buy.

I was going to wait until the money side was confirmed before asking about books.

Cheers,
Wombat.

 

[africancichlidau]

RE: Re: RE: Enclosure size

Wombat buddy, I second Hixies reccommendation on the books mate. The ones he listed are just excellent books for beginners and you will find yourself referring to them all the time

 

[user 270]

Re: RE: Enclosure size

EDIT~ Ah, I see what you meant now about two heat lights, that could work, but seems a bit of a waste of power. If you get your snake out, (for sunlight/uv) it will get plenty of excersise. Eitherway, you'll find what works best for you, but a gradient may be harder to controll by that method if one side hasnt cooled before the other heats up.
Confused now?

I think that is why the artical recommends alternating the heat source every 2 hours to allow the "off" end to cool down.

Sorry if I confused you. I do have trouble puting my thoughts in writing (sometimes). :wink:

Cheers,
Wombat.

 

[Hickson]

RE: Re: RE: Enclosure size

I hadn't heard of that technique before, but I think it's probably a waste of time. The if the snake is basking under the lights, then moving when the lights change is going to be minimal excercise.

(Analogy: If sit in front of the TV all day, and every two hours I move to a chair on the other side of the room, would you call that excercise?

Scary Analogy: If I sit in front of the computer all day, and periodically move to the living room to watch the TV, and go back to the computer when the TV show is finished, is that excercise? :twisted

I would rather keep just one end of the enclosure heated, that way the snake knows which end has heat; consisitency is fairly important in animal husbandry - especially when settling in new acquisitions.



Hix

 

[Menagerie]

RE: Re: RE: Enclosure size

Would someone mind outlining for me exactly what is needed to set up a hatchling click-clack enclosure?

Also how long will the python live in a click clack?

 

[farmdog]

RE: Re: RE: Enclosure size

I'd like 2 know 2? is there any one that can help :cry: :?

 

[Hickson]

RE: Re: RE: Enclosure size

I use newspaper, and a small bowl with water in it. Then I position the click clack on a heat mat, so about a third is over the mat and the other part isn't, to give the hatchie a gradient. Someone on this site (I think sxereturn) once said they stick four click clacks on the one mat saving space and energy.

The hatchies need shelter and in most cases will head under the newspaper, but you can give them a box or similar too. I usually cover half the clickclack with a towel or snake bag so when they come out at night, they feel more secure. Be sure to leave plenty of ventilation holes uncovered!



Hix

 

[user 270]

Thanks guys for your help.

I am taking the plunge. :wink: I will be ordering the first two books on the list tomorrow as well as sending in my licence application.

The licence should take three weeks to come and hopefully I will be able to pick up the books Thursday week (pension day).

Cheers,
Wombat.

 

[Menagerie]

Thank you! Until what age/size would you keep them like this?

Lucky you wombat! Enjoy your snake!

 

[africancichlidau]

Here's a couple of pics that might help.

 

[Hickson]

Thank you! Until what age/size would you keep them like this?

Until they're too big for it. When that will be would depend on the species, how fast they grow, how big the clickclack is (there are different sizes) etc. They should be OK in there for a few months. But by the time they're ready for a larger enclosure, you'll know.



Hix

 

[Viper]

i have a diamond and she was kept in her little click clack for about 6 mths
i dont know how true this statement is but i ws told they can generally be comfy in a tank that is no smaller than half their size in length anything smaller then you should be thinking about upsizing.

 

[Viper]

Re: RE: Enclosure size

[/quote]If I can sell a certain item, I will have around $1000.00 for a complete setup starting from scratch.[/quote]

if you dont want to spend so much
i recommend you just get an old cabinet i got mine for $25 at the salvos and cut out a door added hinges, glass panel at the front cut out hole at the top for the heat light and thats it. oh and plus thermostat. All up costed me around A$300 for everything. found my own tree branches and a shoe box for her hide box.
hope that helps

 

[farmdog]

RE: Re: RE: Enclosure size

I just went bunning a got 2 click clack about 300 x 200 x 100 cost me only about $10 for 1

 

[serpenttongue]

Wombat, all the advice given above has been great but one thing i would like to add is that diamonds dont need a lot of height. Sure they will take it if offered, but its not necessary. For an adult diamond being kept indoors i would make the cage 1.5 long, 65cm wide and 70 cm high. At this height you can still mount a branch within its cage for it to climb onto. It can be hard to create a thermal gradient in a cage that has too much height. You want a cage with length so you can be assured a cool end, which is very important for diamonds.