Fighting pending legislation outlawing most snakes!/ USA

[Red-Ink]

Problem is here in the states, we can have anything, any time. It would be literally impossible to track down and make sure everyone has a license. What do you do about the hognose? Its "venomous" but almost harmless. Would you or should you need a special license for it?

The problem is they want to include all reptiles...beardies, cresties, tokay, snakes, legless, you name it. Crested geckos have no teeth. Harmless. 100% harmless. I need or should have a license for them?

This all stems from one guy in Ohio and Mother Nature in Florida. I think the final "kill" of burms in the Everglades was 50. Now, how many of those were even legal kills. Do I think you should own bears and lions and such, short answer, no. Should I be punished for having a creature with no teeth and is 100% harmless, no.

Our government is so paranoid now its not funny. I just read an article that there are more deaths in the US because of aspirin/ibuprofen than deaths by reptiles. Do we ban aspirin or make it prescription only? Its illogical.

One guy lets exotic animals loose and kills himself so now ALL animals besides dogs and cats are illegal, or our government wants to keep more tabs on us. Oh, in my state, I need extra insurance to own a pit bull or Rottweiler.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Baby with the bath water... you want to keep the baby, learn to compromise. I know it's illogical but logic doesn't factor in when dealing with and weeding out numbnuts (not all in the hobby are numbnuts - but one bad apple spoiling the bunch and all). I know most if not all yanks see this as an encroachment on their freedoms, but having been given free reign more than few have been proven to be irresponsible with it. Kinda like a kid with a toy that exceeds their limits and now the parents have stepped in to reign the brat in.


I'm not having a go at you mate... just stating how I see it.

 

[Viaaf]

You've got me pegged, I like the current Virginia regs, which don't put limits. I also realize that is probably unsustainable. There is going to be an adjustment period for any regulations. However, what is currently proposed pretends to be sensible and balanced but isn't. My main argument is that, in boas and pythons, we could keep balls, angolans, and chondros. Only those. All others are dangerous and not allowed. Anthill pythons? Nope, too dangerous. Stimsons? Childrens? Sorry, just too dangerous. Rosy boas, native to the western US, don't get a meter long? Once again, classified as a dangerous animal and illegal. The regulations they want will toss the baby out too!
The idea of a permit system with different levels is, to me, the way it would be in an ideal world. Ability grows with experience, there is a combination of ability and learning that should be followed. My first snakes were colubrids, milks and kings. A few years later I got a pair of carpet pythons. Then a few more pythons. That's the way that I think, you should learn and demonstrate capability, even if only to yourself, before you actually get whatever it is -- big snakes, vens, motorcycles, mountain climbing, etc.

 

[Gruni]

The other snakes you mention are certainly worth fighting for Viaaf and I'm sure evryone here wishes you guys the best of luck in convincing the powers that be to use a bit of common sense. Have at it! 8)

 

[Viaaf]

Virginia House Bill 1242: Dangerous Wild Animals

I'm putting up a bit of the law I'm talking about for you to see.
[h=3]HB 1242 Dangerous wild animals; Class 1 misdemeanor to privately possess, sell, transfer, etc.[/h] [h=4]SUMMARY AS INTRODUCED:Dangerous wild animals. Makes it a Class 1 misdemeanor to privately possess, sell, transfer, or breed dangerous wild animals, which are identified by taxonomic classification. . . .
b. Family Boidae, to include all species that may be described as family Pythonidae: all species and hybrids of the genera Apodora (pythons), Eunectes (anacondas), Liasis (pythons), Morelia (pythons), and Python (pythons); excluding Morelia viridis (green tree pythons), Python anchietae (Angolan pythons), and Python regius (ball or royal pythons).[/h]

The bill covers more than what I've put up and much of it I won't argue against. What I do argue against is there is no allowance for prior experience or abilities, and the blanket ban covering so many boas & pythons. The carpet python I have, which is second generation offspring of pair I got in 1996? Illegal. The woma I've had for ten years? Got to go! My emerald tree boa, New World counterpart to the green tree python, essentially same characteristics, size, care? Sorry mister, get yourself a chondro, and let the state take away that dangerous animal you've been keeping. Can you make this make sense?

 

[Viaaf]

Gruni, thank you for the words of support. They are appreciated and we will work hard to make whatever law passes reasonable and realistic.
Red Ink, what you say reminds me to stay realistic, or at least try to. There are numbnuts everywhere - that's the perfect description of whoever wrote this law!
I'll keep you posted on what happens. Being government there's no way to tell how long this might drag out.

 

[Red-Ink]

It certainly doesn't make sense Viaaf as a proposed bill in its current state... In fact it's down right stupid.

We can only relate to this from a perspective of our own license system... We aren't all allowed the same species in each state (effectively a "ban") as some species are not on license in one state but are in another, there even is a state were no pythons are allowed all together.

We can only offer you that you fight this with knowledge and education... granted it isn't the easiest educating media pandering desperate to stay in power beurucraps but it is what it is. We all have a whinge about it ourselves but every couple of years or so we are allowed to have a say - mostly falls on deaf ears but a few intrepid and dedicated people in the hobby do give it a go in getting some species on license. More often than not they are knocked down but some do get through. Gather your data, take the emotion out of it and present it in a concise and methodical manner and who knows you might knock some resemblance of sense into them.

 

[thomasssss]

The idea of a permit system with different levels is, to me, the way it would be in an ideal world. Ability grows with experience, there is a combination of ability and learning that should be followed. My first snakes were colubrids, milks and kings. A few years later I got a pair of carpet pythons. Then a few more pythons. That's the way that I think, you should learn and demonstrate capability, even if only to yourself, before you actually get whatever it is -- big snakes, vens, motorcycles, mountain climbing, etc.

so australia must be an ideal world then , we had an amnesty many many moons ago and that was when the licensing system was implemented ( to my knowledge anyway) sure it didnt completely solve the problem and some people didn't come clean but on a whole the system has worked pretty well , sure it has its flaws and the authorities are slow to act but thats just how it is with the government

and yes if the system was in some way like nsw you would still be allowed to keep harmless colubrids , hell where even allowed some of the lower level elapids like golden crowns on an r1

 

[disintegratus]

I feel for you. Best of luck with the fight.
Unfortunately knee-jerk reactionary governance supported by ill-informed, propaganda-loving media is what seems to be the flavour of the month the last few years. It's very similar to what's happened here in Victoria with the breed-specific legislation. An identified dog mauls and kills a child. Answer? Ban pit bulls. A few years later and the bite statistics have been unaffected, the only tangible outcome has been the destruction of an untold number of beloved family pets. Answer? Get "tougher" on "dangerous dogs"

If it pans out anything like it has down here, it will be a long and painful road, littered with the corpses of many innocent animals. I really hope it doesn't come to that

 

[ChargerWA]

Just to put into perspective for the US folk on here, Australia doesn't have a bill of rights.

What that does in effect is transfer the responsibility of decision making in regards the rights of the individual to the legislature and takes it away from the judiciary. This has the effect that Australian law is generally more flexible and moves with the times.

It also means we are much more used to having the Government make decisions on aspects of our lives and we tend to accept it as a fait acompli. Not to say our rights are trodden on (because we have none), but Australians as a whole I would say are more willing to forgo certain rights in recognition that it is better for society that it isn't open season for anyone to own something that has the potential to injure others, be it assault rifles or large pythons.

I explain this not to be a pious ****, just that you may find more Australians support intelligently implemented licensing systems that you might think.

 

[champagne]

The licensing system in Australia is at best a joke, for every person on it there is someone keeping reptiles that isn't.... and no licensing system or ban is going to stop exotics. A lot of people on here do the right thing so don't know the extent of exotics and off license native reptile being kept and bred in Australia.

 

[champagne]

I would be getting in contact with USARK, they can point you in the right direction in getting the information you are going to need to try stop if not reduce the "ban list" good luck....

 

[Gruni]

Given the amount of money and time I have invested in keeping my snake, I would much rather be on license than risk being dobbed in or found out somehow and risk losing it all and copping a huge fine as well. While most of us aren't naive about the number of exotics and off license natives we see it a bit like taking out an insurance policy for peace of mind and to protect us if something goes wrong. No one likes pay car insurance and a lot of people take the risk because they have never been in an accident but they certainly scream when the poo hits the fan and the bills roll in.

 

[Gundeman]

Why on Earth do people feel they have to possess the things they purport to love? The illegal movement of herps is often associated with the drug trade and has potentially serious environmental consequences both through escapees and diseases in the country into which they are introduced and can be ecologically catastrophic in the places from where they are removed. The movement of reptiles must be legislated and anyone with a gram of common sense will understand the reasons why.

Now this could get interesting..

 

[Gruni]

The problem faced in the USA Gundeman is that they already have an extensive 'legal' trade of exotic animals something which was never the case in Australia so in this case the issue is compounded as far as the legislation goes. That doesn't make the legislation any less important but it does shift some of the associated issues in regards to peoples collections and the livelihoods of those legitimately in the industry.

 

[buffcoat]

The problem faced in the USA Gundeman is that they already have an extensive 'legal' trade of exotic animals something which was never the case in Australia so in this case the issue is compounded as far as the legislation goes. That doesn't make the legislation any less important but it does shift some of the associated issues in regards to peoples collections and the livelihoods of those legitimately in the industry.

+1
I wish I could have said that. Very well said. I'd "like" that but its still gone

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Viaaf]

The state had a series of workshops to gather input for a Dangerous Animal Initiative. About 30 people were allowed to participate who represented both the anti (Humane Society of US) and pro (Wyatt of USARK, several breeders and private zoo owners). They met four times, a full day each, to develop a better understanding of how Virginia can implement a workable plan. These people put a lot of time and effort into into the workshops and came up with information to help draft a proposal. From what can be told the legislation coming up has not consulted anything the workshops did, it seemed to have no influence. That may work against it, since everyone from the groups, both sides of the fence, doesn't like their ideas being ignored and their time to have apparently been wasted.

 

[Viaaf]

Good news! I went to our state assembly meeting to meet up with some other keepers to talk to legislators about the proposed bill. Somehow couldn't find the other guys, but did get to talk to my representative. One of my main points was -- Australia has over a dozen python species, only one of which this doesn't class as a Dangerous Animal. How many fatalities have been attributed to these "dangerous" pythons? None on record. So, what makes them dangerous? She seemed to recognize that, if this part of the bill is flawed, how much can you trust the rest of it?
Today I got a message from her saying
Your informed point of view helps me to be a better representative.
Both HB 1242 and SB 477 were defeated and will not be considered for passage by the House of Delegates
So the hobby is safe. This year, at least. I thank you for the words of support, always good to know you've got people on your side (even when they're on the other side of the world!)

 

[disintegratus]

Fantastic news!!!

 

[Gruni]

Great result. Well done. 8)