Hibernation

[JasonL]

I just let night temps (I give no night heat) dictate to my snakes the seasons, northern and desert snakes get blasted with heat during mid day hours year round.

 

[Tassie97]

can still find active snakes in a Tassie winter, just saying

 

[JasonL]

Yeah, I found a wild feeding diamond one cold winters day...

 

[Waterrat]

In the wild, snakes are forced to brumate when it's too cold. I guess the bottom line question is; do these southern species benefit from brumation in captivity?
I don't know the answer but I would like to know, so give the guessing a miss for a while. Please.

 

[JasonL]

I personally think it allows them to achieve slow growth and great age... though half of it is spent semi comatose. anyway lol.

 

[cement]

its my assumption that in nature, everything is perfect. The evolution of species and how they fit into their niche and survive is hard won over time. This is my view of the bigger picture not the individual. They adapt and thrive, or die out.
So to me, the question would more be more do these species benefit from no brumation? They may adapt to it but hoe long would it take when we consider that from wild type to captive type has occurred in the blink of an eye in evolution terms.

I once had a wild diamond that was caught at the beginning of winter (april) , It didn't eat until things warmed up (oct, nov)and the second feed was regurgitated with a heap of small roundworm. i don't know the rate of growth for RW's but they were still present in the animal. They ranged in size from 2-3 cm's to 4-5 cm.and there were approx 20.

 

[Waterrat]

I personally think it allows them to achieve slow growth and great age... though half of it is spent semi comatose. anyway lol.

Gee, that sound like me Jason, I didn't know you knew me that well. lol

 

[saximus]

Has anyone attempted to do a study on it? Obviously it would have to be pretty long term to get any significant results...

 

[cement]

Oh i dunno, a few lifetimes would probably do it!

 

[paultheo]

down here in south aust. our reptiles go into deep hibernation, I once found a Jans banded snake in august under a concrete slab when cleaning up a backyard, it was so deep into hibernation it did'nt move even when i picked it up and relocated it. I have also found beardies, painteds, land mullets and narrow banded sand swimmers, all of which were sleepy to the point of not caring that i was there. I have also kept stimmies on summer temps through winter and they have acted as if they were going through brumation and refused a feed until november when it starts to heat up.

 

[longqi]

Even up here we have definite cycles for most snakes
especially the bigger ones
Tree snakes dont seem to care but retics burmese and the bigger cobras and boigas virtually vanish for 3 months each year
When we find them they dont appear sluggish by any means
Bear in mind that our seasons are 12 day 12 night nearly all year round and the only real variable is the humidity

 

[Dash667]

Watterat, it may not be relevant but if you google University of Sydney's David Slip and Richard Shine brumation research, there are a couple of links which have some interesting oppinions on the subject at hand in relation to Diamonds. ( P.s just putting a suggestion people, please dont yell!)

 

[Waterrat]

Thanks Dash, I will check it out tomorrow.

M

 

[Reptilefreak95]

Brumating your snakes helps with getting them to breed, and sometimes can leave them a bit skinny, but other than that, no ill effects really, i dont brumate mine, it just makes it easier. and yea, i guess it does save mony XD

 

[crocodile_dan]

Michael, I hope this post is relevant to your thread I believe it has a link to thermal dependence of ectotherms and a comparison between captive and wild animals which is why I contributed, I apologize if this is not specifically what you were eluding to and i will remove it if so.

I have been interested in whether captive reptiles have undergone thermal plasticity from the reasonably 'generic' thermal conditions they are exposed to in a fairly constant/controlled environment. Such as...

Is the optimal performance within a species (locale) constant between captive and wild counterparts over a thermal range? I personally believe there would be variation between the two, but I haven't done any research or study.

Would cooler acclimated animals obtain greater size (or longevity) at the same developmental stage than warm acclimated animals? This builds on a principle said to be attributed to ectotherms but the only examples given were from arthropods. A study using amphibians could give quicker results that could tentatively be extrapolated, again I have not gone into this issue myself but animal ecophysiology was one of my best areas and is definitely of interest.

More directly on topic, I do cycle some of my collection and know of a pair of jungles that successfully mated with viable eggs when they were kept in 'summer' conditions year round (not by myself).

 

[Waterrat]

Interesting questions Dan, theoretically, cooler climate animals (snakes in this case) should live longer but I am not sure about attaining greater size. The largest snakes are all tropical species and if we look at e.g. Tiger snakes (from northern NSW to Tasmania), it seems that prey size and its availability is the size determining factor rather than temperature regimes.

I agree with your assumption that the optimal performance btw wild and captive counterparts would differ. Not only the constant v variable temperature regimes would play a role but the snake's performance may be heavily influenced by the way different keepers keep their snakes. I am convinced that keeping snakes in small (and ever-popular) small tubs would have different effect on their performance than keeping them in large landscaped enclosures or outdoor pits.

Thanks for your contribution.

M

 

[crocodile_dan]

Thanks Michael, after reading your post I was motivated to do a search through primary literature and the data on reptiles is unclear (or not a generalized trend) and the majority focus on embryonic development. There does seem to be some influence, but I don't feel the data is comprehensive enough to make any definitive conclusions.

I agree there would be a difference between individuals housed in enclosures that promote activity and those that limit activity, as locomotor performance would be greater and such oxygen consumption (MR) would differ. But I intentionally read and don't contribute to most threads or topics such as enclosure size

Thanks for what to me has been an interesting thread!

 

[ssssmithy]

ssssmithy, it may be so in the south with reptiles inhabiting temperate regions. In tropics, both sexes respond to dropping temperatures but the low temps don't have to last long to get them going.
What about Equatorial reptiles, where the temps, photo-periods, humidity remain more or less the same all year around.
Even here, mating is often triggered by changes in atmospheric pressure rather than low temps.

ill let you know when i breed some of my equatorial reptiles...
clearly my reply was from my experience...and cold temps,yearly change in weather and humidity and of course photoperiod comes into it. ive never bred a mac or a bhp or an elapid by pairing them and keeping the temps exactly the same all year round, and i have and do keep many reptiles in that situation.
it all comes down to mimicking seasonal change that suits the animal your trying to breed. IMO
ta,smithy.

 

[cement]

Watterat, it may not be relevant but if you google University of Sydney's David Slip and Richard Shine brumation research, there are a couple of links which have some interesting oppinions on the subject at hand in relation to Diamonds. ( P.s just putting a suggestion people, please dont yell!)

I just looked at the paper, and slip and Shine say that with their tracked diamonds they were sedentary through summer and Autumn but some moved great distances (sometimes daily) in spring (mating time), which does tie in with my observations on them being more active and alert through that season.

But does the actual cooling affect of winter, give them the energy to be so active? It must play a role, and anything that helps maintain natural energy and vitality must be considered as beneficial for longevity.