keeping illegaly

[buck]

Can't be worse than what's been going on already, surely! :wink:

Oh I think so. At this point in time I am not game to touch it. :lol:

 

[Hickson]

Not one of my rodents could produce a valid permit when requested to do so. I have taken extreme measures.
Yes, thatrs right Ive thrown them over the fence at Villawood.

Gee that's pretty extreme measures Peter. I mean what are the chances they will survive? :roll:

Quite righht. In Villawood they would very quickly end up in one of the local restaurants as an entree.



Hix

 

[AntaresiaLady]

Yayo said :
'I didn't say they wouldn't be breeding if they were released im saying HOW MANY OF THEM WOULD SURVIVE???
i will start drawing pictures for some of you '

Yayo, Pythoninfinite said:
'Your boas, burms, iguanas and others might not thrive outside in the locations of our major cities where cool to cold winters would knock them off, but they could feasibly do very well in the tropical wetlands further north. Temperate species will do very nicely in Melbourne & Sydney - corns & red eared sliders are just 2 examples.'

Couldn't have said it better myself. And I don't need pictures thankyou, there is no need to get uptight and insulting- I've not been derogatory to you at all.

 

[AntaresiaLady]

Thankyou Hix for clarifying the scientific loophole for me...I knew there was one!

 

[Luke_G]

Hello all, I also work in a petshop fulltime. You wont believe the number of stories you hear, But telling if there true or false is another story.

Cheers Luke

 

[Jason]

Hello all, I also work in a petshop fulltime. You wont believe the number of stories you hear, But telling if there true or false is another story.

i know how you feel, some kid has come back twice know telling me he has all these wild couhgt animals in a very small tank, they are very different in size and he has know heat or UV ( i mentioned ihm in an earlier post) when he came in yesterday i told him to release them already before you kill them, if your not going to buy food or give them there basic needs your slowly going to kill them. i dont think he even cares, he asked me how to sex them, i wanted to ask him to meet me somewhere and i will sex them for him, and then just take off with them and let them go, he has only had two of them for a week.

and as ZULU said, the whole dumping them over the back fence in a raid, i have heard the same story and i have heard thet there are ment to be corns in the gosford area that have probably survived.

 

[Sdaji]

Where would you release them? That's irresponsible and illegal.

 

[Moreliaman]

For the record, I've spent more than a year researching distribution modelling/bioclimatic analysis (understanding why things live where they do and predicting where they'd be capable of living). This research will wind up next month, I'll be most relieved!

I'd be very interested in reading this if your happy to send out copies!

Bunnies aren't poisonous, neither are cats, in fact, both are very palatable. That doesn't seem to have slowed them down much!

I'd say thats more likley because mammals are capable of extending their range alot faster than reptiles.

That's the same argument the govt used back in the 30's.
"Rabbits and foxes have nothing to do with it - they are completely different to a toad."

Possibly because they didn’t have the level of technology & research facilities that we have today! I wouldn’t imagine they'd come to the same conclusion now!

Considering we have the most diverse and largest number of reptiles in the world

Really ? well stone the crows !! i thought you just had the highest percentage of venomous species. Cool, more reason for me to move there !

Okay, you want reptile examples...the species of reptiles which are feral in Australia are not poisonous (Red Eared Sliders, Flower Pot Snakes, Asian House Geckoes)

Red ears & house geckoes are living wild in so many countries it would be hard to say how many for sure,and there arent really any reports of them being too much of a problem, as for Ramphotyphlops, lets remember it has managed to inhabit 3/4 of the world because it is small (easily transported undetected) and its parthenogenic ! !

Good point Dicco. It is a reptile paradise. I am just wondering what the chances would be of 2 ferral corn snakes coming into contact with each other!

Even if they were both released in sydney, considering thier range capabilities & other predators.... i'd still say very rare.....but the problem would be........... there would never be just 2 exotic snakes loose !

bottom line if someone wants a boa (or any other species), they will get one. this will never change, and thats why the government needs to change its point of view on the subject.

Could'nt agree more.

morelia-man: This is a reptile forum isnt it. We are discussing exotic reptiles are we not? I dont think bunnies and cats and camels have anything to do with the capability of a reptile to inhabit and occupy a new habitat! Always clever.

?????????????????????? have you been smoking something ? or was this directed at someone else ? :wink: the thing is with mammals .....if they dont like their surroundings they can wander around to find a new one, reptiles usually dont have that level of mobility, they stay there & either survive or die out !

I dont own any turtles. Why? Do you keep exotics Luke?

I do.... Ive got loads of exotics..........what would you like ? :lol:

I'm sorry...am I the only one who sees the humour in Yayo's repeated references to being multilingual when he's failed to exhibit a decent grasp of spelling and grammar in the one language he's used so far?

Any chance we could stay on the topic of reptiles & not turn it into some kind of childish bickering match about spelling & punctuation AGAIN !!!, personally I couldn’t give 2 turds if someone’s spelling & grammar isn’t 100%, its that "petty" thing again !...you could be nice ! It doesn’t cost anything! :wink:

And Yayo, the reason the 'exotics' that would have been released into the wild so far (excluding the ones bought in by the government), haven't been able to cause any environmental damage is because they are not legal. They are NOT in great numbers as they would be, should the government make it legal to own them. People would be breeding them (therefore increasing their numbers) and with many people owning them, there is an increased risk of them being released into the wild, whether accidentally (escapes etc) or on purpose (idiots no longer wanting them etc). And in common numbers, they could cause a problem.

Well i dunno about that ! we don't have cornsnakes wild in the UK ? they can survive our winters, we have 100,000's of legal cornsnakes here ! but no wild population yet !!

Couldn't have said it better myself. And I don't need pictures thankyou, there is no need to get uptight and insulting- I've not been derogatory to you at all..

I thought he said "some of you" i dont think he diredted it at anyone personally !

We knew nothing of the importance of thermal cycling for breeding etc until relatively recently

Really ? how long have you known ? we've been doing it here in europe for 15-20 years ! not only reptiles but other species too !!



Any chance we could make this thread sticky so we dont have to go through it again ?

 

[peterescue]

thankyou for that fine effort. I'd like some tortoises, I will email you the species I would prefer but Im not fussy.

 

[Moreliaman]

All my neighbours know about my exotics, so if I was silly enough to dump them over the fence, they would know exactly where they came from.

Does that mean you dont want this next shipment ? :wink: :lol:

 

[Trademarknick]

I dont think you can use the arguement of some of the pest species, alot were delibratly release and long time ago before there was study into the effects.

I would like to see exotics but at the same time i cant agree to it and say NO.

It is too easy to obtain licenses now (just a money making scheme if you ask me)
No checking of enclosures or any appropriate training.
Some VERY dodgy DIY cost cutting enclosures i have seen.
If you can t afford the basic you shouldnt be allowed to hosue the animal.
If you have trouble with this how will you find money to appropriatly care for an animal?
Food,cost of elec, vet bills etc.

simple testing would help, based on housing etc and harsher fines or lose of license for losing animals in capitivity.

IMO there really is no excuse.

I myself have kept birds for years never once lost a bird escaping
Quite easy to put to add safety walk ways etc.

It is the small group of people that spoil it by not caring or containing there animals properly.

It is not hard at too stop your animals escaping.

Im new to herps but i still know they is no chance my snakes will escape.
Simple planning solves every problem.

 

[AntaresiaLady]

[quote"AntaresiaLady']AntaresiaLady wrote: ?Couldn't have said it better myself. And I don't need pictures thankyou, there is no need to get uptight and insulting- I've not been derogatory to you at all..[/quote]

[quote"Moreliaman'I thought he said "some of you" i dont think he diredted it at anyone personally ! [/quote]

Moreliaman- The comment he made was in response to something I stated. Thats why I said what I said. Its no big deal- everyone is allowed to have their own opinions- what matters is HOW you express them.

Everyone has raised valid points both for and against. Its been nothing if not an eye opener.

 

[Moreliaman]

Its funny how people can get their knickers in a twist over such small insignificant things (directed at no one! :roll

Im glad i wear boxer shorts...they chafe less !! :lol:

 

[cris]

I agree with most of what has been said but heres my 2c
Anyone saying exotics are harmless to us clearly has no idea :roll:
I personally think it would be better to have some regulation of all the exotics entering our country. The problem is it would need to be done properly by ppl who arnt complete idiots(eg. politicians and beurocrats). - wont happen
Or simply crack down hard on ppl illegally importing exotics(more so than drugs, guns etc) this would involve reintroduction of capital punishment, lots of money and specialist police squads - wont happen

So all we can do is hope noone brings in a disease with their illegal cargo and we might be ok, if we are lucky.

I cant remember who mentioned how its better for the government(for them) to leave it the way it is to avoid responsibilty for any bad stuff, but i think that is one of the main reasons things are the way they are.
Im still waiting for them to say sorry for introducing canetoads and gambusia :roll: :lol:

I think it would be technically possible to allow some exotic species to be kept without problem, eg. i cant imagine galopogis tortoises taking over our country.
All non herp exotics are permitted in this way. For example many species of exotic fish can be kept here legally those deemed to be a threat are declared noxious or just illegal imports. Cats are the main present threat to our native animals and are still allowed under no regulation at all :evil: except mine bang!!! :lol:

IMO there are probably some exotic reptiles that arnt a threat.

At the end of the day most ppl dont know or couldnt care less about what effect illegally imported exotic animals have, that is the main problem.
The only realistic solution to the problem is education, and even that is a pipe dream IMO

Here is another can of worms just opened :wink: what about keeping reptiles that dont naturally live in your area, they pose the same threat as exotic species in some ways, in some cases. Ppl have only recently caught onto this with native fish and the detrimental effect they have when introduced into new areas.
This is also more of a problem with temperatures rising.

 

[Fuscus]

There seems to be an argument that because some people keep exotics then they should be made legal. This is the same as saying some people speed on some people stab others so that these should also be made legal.

Also because exotics are (perceived to be) common then they should be legal. Catch a few Gambusia affinis and tell NP that you keep them to find their attitude. Expect to pay heaps. Also it’s illegal to keep sparrows in some states.

And the argument seems to be keeping exotics - i.e. all exotics. If a few species were made legal then I bet that the very next week someone will post "Why can't we keep .. ?" and name a species not on the list. The argument won't change just the boundaries.

Also what makes a species invasive? 20 years ago anyone would have said the AHG was not invasive. Current thinking is that if a species can establish a foot hold then it may become an invasive species by either the animal evolving into one or the environment changing to suit the species. Its best to not to test if the animal is invasive as other pet hobbies seem to do constantly.

And even though it appears that the AHG has not displaced any native species yet, it is filling the ecological niche and preventing a native species from becoming adapted to it. Imagine what birds could be hanging around suburban yards if the sparrow wasn't there.

There is a counter argument in that some native animals may come to depend on the AHG for food and thus provide a new niche.

People seem to think that escapes will only happen rarely and only one or two at a time and that there will be very few animals kept. The fact that animals could be mass dumped or a snake room could become compromised seems to be ignored. There were only 101 cane toads introduced, a dumping of 30 corns could have the same effect, especially if dumped in a suitable area like a rubbish dump.


IMHO people who advocate the keeping of exotics (including fish, birds and plants) seem to have the same mindset as people who smoke, ignore the possible consequences and savior the fleeting pleasure.


http://www.nrm.qld.gov.au/pests/pest_animals/declared/american_corn_snake.html
http://www.deh.gov.au/biodiversity/trade-use/lists/import/gazette/reticulated-burmese-pythons.html
http://www.ento.csiro.au/research/pdf/ento_ctgeneral.pdf

 

[moosenoose]

We're exotics and look at the damage we've caused! :shock: :lol:

I'd believe the vast majority of the "exotics" already here have been raised in this country anyway, the disease factor issue would then have to be very minimal IMO.

So what about the people who are allowed to keep these animals "legally"? And there are quite a few. Are they "more" responsible than anyone else? Are they the only people who are capable of following the strict guidelines that are imposed on them? All seems a bit strange to me.

 

[cris]

We're exotics and look at the damage we've caused!

People naturally live everywhere on earth and in space for that matter, so we arnt exotics IMO.

I'd believe the vast majority of the "exotics" already here have been raised in this country anyway, the disease factor issue would then have to be very minimal IMO.

I dont understand that point :? are you saying there arnt any potentially dangerous diseases in other countries?

 

[Kersten]

Ummm I believe the point he's making is that exotic animals which have been bred in this country wouldn't have the diseases which are present in the countries their species originate from.

There were no humans on this particular continent til less 50,000 years. A fair whack of time after the "creation" of the earth. So in the context of this discussion....we are exotics.

 

[moosenoose]

Got it in one Kersten.

This argument will always be a topic of debate. We allow all sorts of exotics animals into this country, and I find it funny that people who are fanatical about reptiles seem to be the ones making the biggest noise about it.

What ever happened to words like "quarantine" and "responsibility"? This debate will still be ongoing in 20 years time.

 

[cris]

Oh i get ya now, im just a bit slow sometimes :wink:
I thought you might have been saying since nothing too bad has happend yet, it should be ok to keep importing stuff, my bad.