Live feeding...

[Pythoninfinite]

The thread was closed while I was writing this!!! I think there's a few too many soap boxes where live-feeding is concerned... Once it's been said, there's no need to hammer the point any more. When I was a newbie 50 years ago, I did all these things too (as most of you would have as well). It seemed very unlikely to me that a snake would eat thawed food, in fact the idea didn't even cross my mind until I'd been keeping snakes for 20-odd years.

It's a perfectly natural assumption that live may appeal more than fresh-killed or thawed-frozen, and it only needs a bit of experience to discover otherwise. Those of you with a self-righteous bent could employ your judgement skills much more usefully examining how some people keep and kill their rodents - that's a far more worrying aspect of the reptile hobby for me, and definitely worthy of a bit more scrutiny. I've seen terrible cruelty inflicted on rodents by people who would be horrified if the same abuse was done to reptiles... there are some grotesquely insensitive people out there...

Jamie

 

[vampstorso]

Good on ya Jamie...nice too see SOMEONE isn't trying to prove dominance over someone elses life!
What got me was members in that thread crackin hissy fits, are the same people who whinge at the drop of a hat when people are less than nice too them!

I'd truly like too see where people think being nasty and/or snarky will get them or the person they're "helping"

Surely most people have had a teacher in school, who gets angry at you when you don't know the answer, who ever liked that guy?...no one. And what did they ever teach you? Nothing but bitterness.

 

[Defective]

i wasn't trying to prove dominance over anyone, i as like many others that commented, were simply pointing out that 1. its illegal to feed live items and 2. they're was probably other reasons as to why it wasn't eating as well as it had only been 3wks not 3-4months.

then bringing her job into the equation made it sound like she was using traumatising events as an excuse!

 

[Pythoninfinite]

"then bringing her job into the equation made it sound like she was using traumatising events as an excuse!"

All the member did was ask a question and provide some details (which were useful), and she ends up being burnt at the stake. And I don't think she even lives in Salem... Message received loud and clear.

When your keeping techniques are perfect, only then do you have the right to analyse so artfully and critically...

Jamie

 

[CrystalMoon]

I was extremely sad that the thread collapsed into a less than helpful tirade in the end........ I believe we all live in glass houses and therefore should only try and help not berate..... I know the lesson was learned and recognised fairly early in the thread. And that was a good thing
Crystal

 

[Defective]

i have perfect temps in all enclosures, they are all immaculately spotless, my stimmie eats same day and time every fortnight and my beardies do as well. so i therefore believe my keeping techniques are perfect and i challenge anyone to find that they aren't! my stimmie sheds are complete with eyecaps, my youngest beardie is yet to shed and my oldest has shed completely twice in my care..all lizards have UV, clean water, fresh salad, my stimmie has clean water every 2nd day and all reps get an equal amount of 'play time' so i put it to those that would like to analyse my husbandry and keeping techniques to feel free and do that.

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

Hahaha, I had just put the finishing touches on my "Live Feeding" novella, hit 'post' and the damn thing was closed! All excellent points Jamie, for the love of... mathematically, death by constriction is as quick as death by CO2 asphyxiation. I know, I've timed it. I have seen rodent breeding 'facilities' that would get folks thrown in prison and people here foam at the mouth about a bloody live fuzzy mouse getting presented? Give your friggin heads a shake! In that particular instance, an inexperienced keeper made a decision to feed live based on the incorrect conclusion that 3 weeks was too long for a python to go without a feed. She now knows otherwise. Other than the timing, I saw nothing wrong with that. To the folks constantly sprouting off about live feeding and how animal cruelty legislation pertains to it I say: have you read the legislation, I think not. It is in fact perfectly legal to feed live prey items to animals that would otherwise not eat. You can harp on about it being illegal all you want, you are still incorrect. It is the PREFERRED method? Of course not idiot. However, it does not call for the crucifixion of inexperienced keepers by other inexperienced keepers, when you do that, you are a detriment to the hobby.

Somewhere in my deleted post I had mentioned that live feeding should be used only as a last resort feeding strategy when all other strategies have been exhausted and I stand by that. I've done it myself a few times when the situation left me no other alternative.

The following is from the ANIMAL CARE AND PROTECTION ACT 2001 (Qld)

It is an offence exemption for an offence for a person if--

(a) the act that constitutes the offence involves using an animal (the food animal) as live food for another animal (the fed animal); and ​

(b) the food animal and the fed animal are both lawfully kept by the person; and ​

(c) the fed animal will only eat the food animal if it is alive; and ​

(d) feeding the food animal to the fed animal is essential for the fed animal's survival. ​

There is a similar clause in the NSW regulations, sorry you have to go find it yourselves.

 

[Elapidae1]

I wonder how many of the flamers have had difficult snakes to feed? and how quickly they would consider using a live feed to illicit a response should they find they have an animal on their hands losing condition and still refusing a feed, Hell I bet some of them have done it and still have the audacity to jump in and flame others.
Under some circumstances I believe it's acceptable, maybe not in the case I think this thread refers too, I just hope that person doesn't continue making mistakes later down the track throughn fear of asking advice

i have perfect temps in all enclosures, they are all immaculately spotless, my stimmie eats same day and time every fortnight and my beardies do as well. so i therefore believe my keeping techniques are perfect and i challenge anyone to find that they aren't! my stimmie sheds are complete with eyecaps, my youngest beardie is yet to shed and my oldest has shed completely twice in my care..all lizards have UV, clean water, fresh salad, my stimmie has clean water every 2nd day and all reps get an equal amount of 'play time' so i put it to those that would like to analyse my husbandry and keeping techniques to feel free and do that.

Rather than perfect husbandry I would say you have perfect animals

 

[cement]

I didn't see the offending thread but IMO when a snake overpowers a food item properly it is a very quick and clean death.
Nature cannot be bettered by humans.

I would even go as far to say that it is better then gassing or the myriad of other ways i have known of peoples technique for killing rodents.

Live feeding should really only be done by people who know and understand a snakes body language very well. And who will stay and make sure that the food item gets killed.

 

[Pythoninfinite]

i have perfect temps in all enclosures, they are all immaculately spotless, my stimmie eats same day and time every fortnight and my beardies do as well. so i therefore believe my keeping techniques are perfect and i challenge anyone to find that they aren't! my stimmie sheds are complete with eyecaps, my youngest beardie is yet to shed and my oldest has shed completely twice in my care..all lizards have UV, clean water, fresh salad, my stimmie has clean water every 2nd day and all reps get an equal amount of 'play time' so i put it to those that would like to analyse my husbandry and keeping techniques to feel free and do that.

You are truly a fabulous keeper, with obviously fabulous animals Defective... will you marry me ???

J

 

[phantomreptiles]

I do not approve of live feeding - but I had a difficult coastal that I force feed for six months or so. I finally tried live pinkie rats after exhausting every other option and I mean every other option.
She had five live feeds, now smashes defrosted pinkies. To give you an idea of how small this coastal is she is now 18months and is up to 37gms.
Hard to justify live feeding but sometimes there is a time and place.

 

[vampstorso]

Plenty of people on here keep healthy, happy, and problem free animals...
Doesnt mean they all (myself included) feel it nessecary to be nasty in response to an HONEST question when someone is trying to help their animal.

And what? Should people who have healthy animals get a medal or something?! Oooooh such superior beings they are!

 

[ingie]

Pics or it didn't happen...........

i have perfect temps in all enclosures, they are all immaculately spotless, my stimmie eats same day and time every fortnight and my beardies do as well. so i therefore believe my keeping techniques are perfect and i challenge anyone to find that they aren't! my stimmie sheds are complete with eyecaps, my youngest beardie is yet to shed and my oldest has shed completely twice in my care..all lizards have UV, clean water, fresh salad, my stimmie has clean water every 2nd day and all reps get an equal amount of 'play time' so i put it to those that would like to analyse my husbandry and keeping techniques to feel free and do that.

.​

 

[alrightknight]

i have perfect temps in all enclosures, they are all immaculately spotless, my stimmie eats same day and time every fortnight and my beardies do as well. so i therefore believe my keeping techniques are perfect and i challenge anyone to find that they aren't! my stimmie sheds are complete with eyecaps, my youngest beardie is yet to shed and my oldest has shed completely twice in my care..all lizards have UV, clean water, fresh salad, my stimmie has clean water every 2nd day and all reps get an equal amount of 'play time' so i put it to those that would like to analyse my husbandry and keeping techniques to feel free and do that.

Perfection is in the eyes of the beholder remember this. What you consider to be perfect husbandry might not be the case, in fact perfection is something I dont think anyone can achieve because there is always a better way for it to be done.

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

i have perfect temps in all enclosures, they are all immaculately spotless, my stimmie eats same day and time every fortnight and my beardies do as well. so i therefore believe my keeping techniques are perfect and i challenge anyone to find that they aren't! my stimmie sheds are complete with eyecaps, my youngest beardie is yet to shed and my oldest has shed completely twice in my care..all lizards have UV, clean water, fresh salad, my stimmie has clean water every 2nd day and all reps get an equal amount of 'play time' what? so i put it to those that would like to analyse my husbandry and keeping techniques to feel free and do that.

Hey, wow, your one stimmie (one of the simplest and most tolerant of all Aussie pythons to keep, regardless of keeper ineptitude) is going great guns! Good for you.

I recently aquired a magnificent bredli specimen, that for the breeder (experienced and capable) was a difficult feeder, and as such, was far smaller at her age than her paired male. When I got her at about 18 months, she was 180g, pitiful for her age. Stuck her on the rack, same heat and conditions as everyone else, she will now eat me out of house and home. Simple change of husbandry, nothing at all special, she now eats like a champion (defrosted or fresh killed,she don't care!) If it had come to it, Squeaky would have been tossed in with her without prejudice or hesitation. Does this make me the bestest keeper in the whole world wide and most entitled to **** talk my fellow inexperienced keepers? (No,seriously, I suck at this hobby.) Oh yeh, my cages are all clean, plenty of fresh water on demand, and prey items from an ethical breeding facility (mine), fed on high quality rodent feed and veggies, and kept in 240L tubs. Australian of the Year? Well, now I'm starting to think so!

P.S. I'm half cut right now,sorry if that makes no sense.)

 

[Defective]

Pics or it didn't happen...........

Yoda, My dragon | Facebook - Pics of Yoda my oldest beardie

Keiko | Facebook - pics of Keiko my stimmie

sorry no pics of Little Foot

 

[Bluetonguesblack]

Ha ha , you lit the fire dont forget!

 

[akuji]

i have perfect temps in all enclosures, they are all immaculately spotless, my stimmie eats same day and time every fortnight and my beardies do as well. so i therefore believe my keeping techniques are perfect and i challenge anyone to find that they aren't! my stimmie sheds are complete with eyecaps, my youngest beardie is yet to shed and my oldest has shed completely twice in my care..all lizards have UV, clean water, fresh salad, my stimmie has clean water every 2nd day and all reps get an equal amount of 'play time' so i put it to those that would like to analyse my husbandry and keeping techniques to feel free and do that.

is it perfect keeping if they are fed same day everytime, I thought that keeping reptiles is simulating their natural habitat? if so in the wild they dont drop into their favourite resaurant for dinner same time like clockwork

 

[Jen]

I don't know if some of the comments in this thread and the other are directed at me - but first up. Yes, I do cull my mice humanely, in the way that I was taught by both experienced personnel and a vet at the job I had in a mouse house, apparently I was so good at it that it became my main job, as well as my job to teach others the technique. I use cervical dislocation which causes instant death. I never asked about the OP (other thread) about their job, i never mentioned their job, only the 'spiritual training' that apparently allowed them to allow torture to a live animal. By torture, i not only mean the suffocation and bones being crushed if the snake takes the live prey, but also the fact that a live fuzzy was caused to be away from its mother for any length of time - this in my mind is horrible cruelty. So much more to say but really don't feel like an infraction. Perhaps there needs to be an even more basic thread for newbies that is sent to their inbox the moment they join, making it very clear what is accepted and what is not. Obviously many newbs - to the site and the hobby - just don't bother to use the search function or look at the stickies....

 

[Elapidae1]

Accepted in regards to what?