Locality / Purity. Why Does It Matter?

[junglepython2]

Cant agree with you there. For me it's about the degree of genetic difference between the parent animals, and that degree is far greater between a Stimpson's and a Childreni than between a wheatbelt stimmy and another locality.

: /

I think he was trying to say a jungle x darwin escaping in darwin territory is just as bad pure jungle escaping in darwin territory.

 

[Sdaji]

Cant agree with you there. For me it's about the degree of genetic difference between the parent animals, and that degree is far greater between a Stimpson's and a Childreni than between a wheatbelt stimmy and another locality.

What junglepython said

Maybe I didn't word my post very well, I didn't mean that I think captive bred animals are a direct threat to wild animals, but that I think it would be unfortunate if a particular species or subspecies became extinct in the wild due to habitat loss etc, and the only captive examples of that animal weren't stock-standard wild-types, but morphs or hybrids.

Yes, I see your point, but we're breeding pets, not running a conservation project. I do think you have a valid point here. I'm not trying to shoot you down, just pointing out that people won't care because they have a different set of values. If a locality was to go extinct it would be better to have captive animals which looked like the extinct wild ones (again, this is purely sentimental). If a population was endangered I would hope that there would be people who would keep a natural-looking captive population (for this reason I'd like to see Oenpellies established, just in case). I can't for the life of me think of a species which is well established in captivity, being hybridised etc, which is endangered in the wild and has no naturalistic animals in captivity. Anyway, as I said, valid point.

Maybe not in your context I'm talking about loss of genetic diversity, so for me it seems entirely relevant.

You're going to rapidly lose genetic diversity in captivity whether or not you cross.

I just don't know that I'm *that* brave, though I did notice that nobody answered my question about SXR's "albino pairs". : /

It seems you were brave enough. As promised I responded. Good luck with your studies! You seem keen and I hope you end up being a brilliant geneticist! The reptile world could use more!

 

[Kathryn_]

Geneticist? Ye gods, no. Try microbiologist. I lack the patience required for endless number-crunching in genetics, though working in gen mod, especially for crops in aus, would be rewarding if you could find a place to do it "properly". I do like the little bugs, though. Amoeba beat vertebrates in the cute stakes every time, for my money.

 

[Sdaji]

Have fun counting cell cultures and repetitively sterilising pieces of wire in flames, then wiping them over agar plates, making up jelly, cleaning up jelly...

I'll take reptiles over single-celled life. You can have them

 

[BROWNS]

Lol Sdaji, let me start by thanking u for starting this thread.... Finally a sensible conversation without ten year olds having a go at people for liking or disliking hybrids.... Like I mentioned earlier in one of my posts, what really is happening here is a bunch of old timers who know the market(profits), conditioning the noob's about what to to like and what not to like....Take my word, the future is a good looking snake rather than a locality specific ordinary snake........ Imagen, there was a guy on here (something turtle) who had a go at me for saying that line breeding makes snakes look better).. I find it funny that none of them can explain why they really like locality specific animals and can only speak of sentimental values... All of us in this reptile hobby know better than believe the breeder and we also know that not everything we get is always pure..... Infact, from what I understand, most Palmerston jungles have already been mixed with diamonds and most albinos have no locality(which no one really cares about). Any way, would really like to see where this conversation ends....... cheers

Chetan.
(P.S. Love hybrids).....

:lol:gold%black let me start by asking how you come across the understanding that most Palmerston jungles have diamond in them?It wouldn't happen to be from a certain well known breeder who spreads this story to every man and his dog.One reason given is that the Krauss lineage specifically the line from Peter Krauss that John Montgomery breeds tend to have quite a lot of gold/yellow flecking through the black just like the ones in the pic I've posted so because the black is not pure black and has yellow flecking which believe it or not is rather common in many jungles from many localities!Have you ever even driven up The Palmerston or do you even know the area the Palmerston rainforest covers and how many different looking jungles can be found there?I'll bet you haven't and are just going on hearsay?

Now if you were to smuggle jungles in from America would you not bring in the best lineage possible that stays nice and small as do our true rainforest jungles do with strong solid black and super bright gold/yellow that doesn't blackout and stays clean as a whistle for the rest of it's life like many US Jungles do?The ones I have a fair idea you're talking about for starters is only one bloodline of Palmerston locality jungles,there are many many other breeders with their own Palmerston bloodlines that they breed and one could take your comment as meaning the junges found in the Palmerston area have diamond in them which is propostrous to say the least.I myself have seen pure Palmerstons brighter and better than any you get in captivity and so have very many other people,you would be surprised what's out there in the wild and many of the wild specimens can have a great deal of the gold/yellow flecking and some have a bit and some none!

I would not believe everything you here and suggest you do some field herping yourself and you'll see exactly what I mean.I mean honestly why would someone in Australia the home of jungles smuggle in a line that tends to almost always black out around 3-5 years old when they could have got a line that stays 3-5 foot in size and keeps bright as can be gol/yellow that doesn't blackout with age,I'm sorry but I'm sick of hearing this story and then people making cracks about it who I'm guessing haven't even been up The Palmerston or even know where it is.

Have you been field herping in that area chetan and seen the varience in jungles you will come across if you do put enough time into spotting for them?My guess is NO but I'd love to hear your answer seeing as you seem to think you know a bit about them according to the majority having diamond in them in the hobby or the wild???

 

[herpkeeper]

i agree with Browns totally. if G/B you had in fact done any herping for yourself from tully to the palmerston area's, you would have come across just as many animals with the yellow / gold flecking than the ones with solid black. i'm sure some of the big breeders who are dead against cross breeding within sub species would either split their sides laughing or start puking at such a coment ! as True Blue stated, ask someone like Dave from Pilbara Pythons, he lived in the area for long enough, he's seen PLENTY of jungles in the wild not on american web sites.................... go clock up a few kilometers for yourself, then come back and tell us all that most jungles are crossed with diamonds !!!

 

[Colin]

Infact, from what I understand, most Palmerston jungles have already been mixed with diamonds Chetan.
(P.S. Love hybrids).....

:lol: thats the most bizzare statement (even for APS) I"ve heard in a long time :lol:

Is there a reptile on the planet that hasn't already been crossed with diamonds???

 

[BROWNS]

Agreed most stupid comment of the year award goes to........take a guess???

Geez n I thought a jungle diamond cross was an intergrade,damn and just when I thought I had it right!