'Mossman pygmy stimos' Pt2

[slacker]

I've been in contact with Andy (ANTARESIA1) about these since the thread has been closed and felt this clarification needed to be publicly posted, thus this thread.

Now, Andy had said that the true locality was as close to Mt Carbine as it was to Mossman. I took this to mean that the locality was neither Mossman, nor Mt Carbine and that a false, arbitrary locality had been put on them intentionally.

What Andy had actually been trying to say is the animals were found in between those two locations, and given there's a whole lot of nothing in between those locations, which location were they to name them after?

 

[BROWNS]

If this is regarding the small banded childrens pythons which are not necessarily stimsons the location has probably not been given for good reason as when ppl post locations of animals that are different to the norm you may as well write a shopping list as these locals then get targeted by ppl who collect from the wild.I think inbetween the 2 locals given is good enough however there are ppl who know exactly where these tiny childrens are found who would be wise to keep the locality to themselves!!!!

 

[slacker]

Yep, that would be them. Although I think several locations have already been publicly posted elsewhere.

 

[wranga]

having read the pages of arguing in the other thread before it was closed. excuse me i dont mean to sound rude, but dose it really matter what the locality of the original wild caught was? if you like the snake and want to own it then i dont see how the locality matters. yes i do like these hot looking snakes and am waiting on a call now about a pair that im hoping to pick up tomorrow

 

[BROWNS]

Yeah I know and also been posted on here previously.I found out that certain ppl targeted the locality given collecting several specimens and selling them for big dollars which again is why I think it best for certain uncommon localities of out of the normal animals shouldn't be posted,it's a shame but that's the nature of the beast!

 

[slacker]

having read the pages of arguing in the other thread before it was closed. excuse me i dont mean to sound rude, but dose it really matter what the locality of the original wild caught was? if you like the snake and want to own it then i dont see how the locality matters. yes i do like these hot looking snakes and am waiting on a call now about a pair that im hoping to pick up tomorrow

Thing is, wranga, when people pay decent money for animals from a certain locality, they expect them to be from a certain locality. Locality matters to a lot of people.

It'd be a bit like buying a het for albino and finding out that it's not a het at all. So yes, it does matter.

Fair point BROWNS.

 

[ihaveherps]

Think this thread has summed it all up already.... For some finding a snake visually appealing is enough, for these keepers, if they can validate the price of any animal based on aesthetics alone, then good for them. Unfortunately others collect their animals somewhat more podantically, taking pride in the locales they collect, and even a thinly veiled secrecy about actual locale can have a real bearing on the worth of a linage of animals within their collections. All in all these animals are all pets, though thousands of these pets are advertised every year for sale, for some the look of the animal is enough, for others their attention is drawn to the animals due to provenance, so feel somewhat agrieved when they find they were lured under false pretences...

 

[ad]

I doubt they were found 'between' the 2 localities, Andy is failing to understand the concept of the range,
How do you keep these stimmies?, keep them moist and humid with a sphagnum substrate?

 

[Boney]

I would like to just clear up I bought these animals years ago from a fairly well known person . i bought these as mossmans. at the time and to this day this is close enough for me .i have not tryed to mislead anyone . i have been told they are gps located to where they where found . i myself have not been there i dont no the location excactly dont care to know it and are happy with it . its just been in recent years that people are after a excact location . things have changed in that repect .. wheather they do actually have a gps attached i cant confirm this and i dont care im about keeping animals not the politics .

i also feel like MT CARBINE PROBLY IS THE NORMAL RANGE . I DONT KNOW OR CARE . ABOUT THIS .. I BOUGHT these as mossmans its not for me to chase the orignal poacher to find the excact truth . i dont care anyway sorry about that .

also it doesnt help when a certain bloke says they are a intergrade in 1 thread titled pygmy form stimo . then says they are defintly not in another . this i dont care about i leave this up to the internet experts .

also i refere to DARWINS THERORY on evolution things will adapt to new conditions . animals dont read books and field guids where they are meant to live . .

also if you are not buying or they are not your animals keep out of it . i refere to opinions on locals you can sort of prove they are found there . you cant prove they are not . by just saying thats not normal habitat and i havent seen them there .


anyway all i got to say is they are being sold for what i bought them as if its 24 kms out at the very most .and you aint happy dont buy them . nothing more to say on this.. end of story wont post no more on the subject .

 

[ihaveherps]

I doubt they were found 'between' the 2 localities, Andy is failing to understand the concept of the range,
How do you keep these stimmies?, keep them moist and humid with a sphagnum substrate?

Thats taking things a bit far.... sphagnum moss... jeebus

 

[wranga]

sorry slacker, you have far more experience than me but i dont see how locality or if an animal is het or not are even similar. i understand your point if someone is told something and this turns out to be false.
herpies you make sence as allways

 

[slacker]

How do you keep these stimmies?, keep them moist and humid with a sphagnum substrate?

hahaha.

i dont see how locality or if an animal is het or not are even similar. i understand your point if someone is told something and this turns out to be false.

I think you just clarified that for yourself mate. Things being sold as something they're not. Would it matter to you if you bought what was supposed to be a het and it wasn't? I'm sure it would. Same as it matters to some when they find out the locality they were given for their animals isn't correct.

 

[Perko]

Quote " I DONT KNOW OR CARE . ABOUT THIS .. "






Specialising in locale specific Antaresia :lol:

 

[Waterrat]

Guys, snap out of it, you have been fooled by someone who discovered how to get good $$ for an ordinary, just a bit smaller A. maculosa. Mossman and Mt. Carbine are two entirely different habitats types and even blind Freddy would see the difference btw specimens from those two localities. Are these "rare snakes" different genetically, morphologically, morphometrically or otherwise from the standard A. maculosa - or A. stimsoni (if you like)? No! They are just a bit smaller, carefully designed and described for collectors who desperately want to own something different and rave on about it. Wake up!

 

[wranga]

hahaha.



I think you just clarified that for yourself mate. Things being sold as something they're not. Would it matter to you if you bought what was supposed to be a het and it wasn't? I'm sure it would. Same as it matters to some when they find out the locality they were given for their animals isn't correct.

point taken slacker

 

[slacker]

Guys, snap out of it, you have been fooled by someone who discovered how to get good $$ for an ordinary, just a bit smaller A. maculosa. Mossman and Mt. Carbine are two entirely different habitats types and even blind Freddy would see the difference btw specimens from those two localities. Are these "rare snakes" different genetically, morphologically, morphometrically or otherwise from the standard A. maculosa - or A. stimsoni (if you like)? No! They are just a bit smaller, carefully designed and described for collectors who desperately want to own something different and rave on about it. Wake up!

Ever seen a pure A. maculosa with the ventrolateral stripe known in stimsoni, but not maculosa? How about an A. maculosa which maxes out at 180g? Yep... very normal mate. Strangest looking maculosa I've ever seen!

Damn, I think I just woke myself up snoring.

 

[JasonL]

I think I'll just jump in my time machine and go back to the 80's when they were all the same thing...much easier....

 

[Southern_Forest_Drag]

why would u restart this thread sigh.

 

[Kris]

Quote " I DONT KNOW OR CARE . ABOUT THIS .. "
Specialising in locale specific Antaresia :lol:

For someone that seems to not care so much, one would think he'd be happy to just call them "pygmy stimmies from north QLD" or something similar and just as boring.

And the for sale advert before was a great laugh.... not very professional, but great for a laugh.

Good luck with the reputation as a "reputable breeder"

 

[derekm]

I've been in contact with Andy (ANTARESIA1) about these since the thread has been closed and felt this clarification needed to be publicly posted, thus this thread.

Now, Andy had said that the true locality was as close to Mt Carbine as it was to Mossman. I took this to mean that the locality was neither Mossman, nor Mt Carbine and that a false, arbitrary locality had been put on them intentionally.

What Andy had actually been trying to say is the animals were found in between those two locations, and given there's a whole lot of nothing in between those locations, which location were they to name them after?

Based on what I have just seen on Google Earth (and a few other pictures of the area on the web), there appears to be a graduated sclerophyll forest boundary between two very different habitats that is about 16km from both Mossman and the peak of Mt Carbine on a straight line between them. On the Mt Carbine side, the habitat appears to be savannah and on the Mossman side, it appears to be rainforest (but I won't know that until early September when I will visit the area for the first time.) Between the savannah and the thick forest (near the half-way point between Mt Carbine and Mossman) the forest appears to thin out gradually to savannah.

So, to suggest an answer to Slacker's question, if the python was found in the savannah habitat, it would be consistent to describe it as "Mt Carbine locale" and if it was found in the rainforest habitat, it would be consistent to describe it as "Mossman locale", since the savannah is closer to Mt Carbine and the rainforest is closer to Mossman.
distinct. The search area, for anyone that was interested, would still be several hundreds of square kilometres in area.

My guess is that there are at least 4 to 6 macro-habitats ( 'very different whole lots of nothing', rather than 'a whole lot of nothing', if you like) between Mossman and Mt Carbine - urban, cane farms, rainforest, wet sclerophyll forest (maybe), dry sclerophyll forest (maybe) and sclerophyll savannah.