Pet shop argument
- Thread starter Kristy_07
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Fantazmic
Very Well-Known Member
its because of the ethics of some petshops......and the support they give after the pet is bought.
also the conditions the animals are kept in are often not that great and it is stressful for animals to be in petshops (people tapping on glass noise size of enclosure disease etc) Also pet shops also dont talk to people thoroughly enough about the keeping of the animal etc.....more interested in selling the animal for a quick buck. I know some breeders can do all of these things too....but reputable breeders with a good reputation are there for you for the life of the animal and you dont have to look tooo hard to find someone good who will support and mentor you in the keeping of your animal....there are some wonderful people on this site...and you dont have to look too hard to find them.
I think probably my opinions stem from the terrible puppy farming that goes on in the dog breeding world and pet shops really perpetuate that.
Just my opinion
Elizabeth
also the conditions the animals are kept in are often not that great and it is stressful for animals to be in petshops (people tapping on glass noise size of enclosure disease etc) Also pet shops also dont talk to people thoroughly enough about the keeping of the animal etc.....more interested in selling the animal for a quick buck. I know some breeders can do all of these things too....but reputable breeders with a good reputation are there for you for the life of the animal and you dont have to look tooo hard to find someone good who will support and mentor you in the keeping of your animal....there are some wonderful people on this site...and you dont have to look too hard to find them.
I think probably my opinions stem from the terrible puppy farming that goes on in the dog breeding world and pet shops really perpetuate that.
Just my opinion
Elizabeth
PhilK
Very Well-Known Member
Alot of pet shops, not all:
1. Generally don't know anything about the animals they are selling or the care they require
2. Certainly do not provide the care they require while stocking them - particularly true with spiders and scorpions and reptiles.
3. Sell them at retardedly high prices
4. Often fail in basic things such as naming the animals the right names - eg. Spotted Children's Python, cleaning cages and having all their birds eating 100% seed
5. Pet shops encourage impulse buying which is certainly no good for the animals.
6. Often stocking rates are extremely high which perpetuates disease and stress
That's all I can think of for now but it is certainly enough for me.
1. Generally don't know anything about the animals they are selling or the care they require
2. Certainly do not provide the care they require while stocking them - particularly true with spiders and scorpions and reptiles.
3. Sell them at retardedly high prices
4. Often fail in basic things such as naming the animals the right names - eg. Spotted Children's Python, cleaning cages and having all their birds eating 100% seed
5. Pet shops encourage impulse buying which is certainly no good for the animals.
6. Often stocking rates are extremely high which perpetuates disease and stress
That's all I can think of for now but it is certainly enough for me.
Kristy_07
Very Well-Known Member
Hmmm... I'm not convinced yet 
Certainly, most of the points raised so far are pretty generalised (except for selling at stupidly high prices - I can agree with that). I'm not convinced that it's true of the industry as a whole to say that the animals are not well looked after, staff don't know anything about them, don't properly clean or enrich the enclosures, they're after a quick buck, and won't give support to the new owners after they leave the shop.
People who work in pet shops generally like animals. It would make sense that they would like to see the animals looked after and happy, then, yeah?
So, where did this huge generalisation come from that pet shops are horrible places for animals to be in? Or is it just that the generalisation is there, and people think it sounds like a good thing to believe without putting much thought into it?
Certainly, most of the points raised so far are pretty generalised (except for selling at stupidly high prices - I can agree with that). I'm not convinced that it's true of the industry as a whole to say that the animals are not well looked after, staff don't know anything about them, don't properly clean or enrich the enclosures, they're after a quick buck, and won't give support to the new owners after they leave the shop.
People who work in pet shops generally like animals. It would make sense that they would like to see the animals looked after and happy, then, yeah?
So, where did this huge generalisation come from that pet shops are horrible places for animals to be in? Or is it just that the generalisation is there, and people think it sounds like a good thing to believe without putting much thought into it?
GeckoJosh
Almost Legendary
edit
too tired, didnt make sense lol
too tired, didnt make sense lol
PhilK
Very Well-Known Member
Precisely why I said NOT ALL pet shops.
If you have found a pet shop that you believe looks after it's animals well and gives good, accurate follow up advice then by all means shop there - nobody is telling you not to. If I found a place like that I would shop there too. I would have thought it was pretty obvious that when people bad mouth pet shops they don't include the good ones..
Every pet shop I have been in, in most facets, are around for a quick buck and aren't looking after their animals properly. The pet shops brought up in flaming threads on this site are precisely those kind of pet shops and I think it's pretty easy to see why people won't buy livestock from them.
Kristy_07
Very Well-Known Member
Chill, Phil
I brought this up as a point of discussion. Of course I wouldn't buy animals from a shop if they obviously treated them like rubbish. But, from what I have seen, many people on here loathe pet shops as a general rule, for the very general reasons that have been raised already. It's a point of view that I'd like to understand more, since I worked in many pet shops when I was younger, and none of the points that have been raised were a problem in the shops I worked in. In fact, for the most part, the very opposite would be closer to the truth. I still frequent pet shops, and have not come across many that aren't giving their charges a decent temporary home. So, while I am after some of the more emphatic non-pet shoppers to explain to me why it's a terrible industry and I shouldn't support it, I'm also looking for this in the form of well-constructed arguments to help me understand what the issue is, and whether people really are just generalising or making a valid point. Not just a flaming
PhilK
Very Well-Known Member
I understand the point of your thread Kristy, as you said you are bringing it up as a point of discussion and I am simply discussing why I believe people hate the pet shop industry. My local is the one I go to buy supplies from, but I would never buy any stock from there except perhaps a fish or bird, because the bird guy really knows his stuff and is a great help. The reptiles and other exotic pets are kept very poorly and they always stock dogs that end in "oodle", which are essentially mongrels that they charge top dollar for.
I am not a fan of the industry. I study vet and the amount of animals we get through the hospital from the pound is mind boggling.. the pounds themselves put down 100s of thousands of dogs and cats a year, and while it is foolish to blame pet shops for this eventuality I think their contribution cannot be overlooked. As I said earlier, they are an impulse buy thing that is simply a money making venture (as all businesses must be). My issue is not that they are making money, but that they are doing so at the expense of the animals who so often end up on our anatomy tables.
I hope I'm not coming off as trying to attack you or be rude, I just enjoy a discussion!
I am not a fan of the industry. I study vet and the amount of animals we get through the hospital from the pound is mind boggling.. the pounds themselves put down 100s of thousands of dogs and cats a year, and while it is foolish to blame pet shops for this eventuality I think their contribution cannot be overlooked. As I said earlier, they are an impulse buy thing that is simply a money making venture (as all businesses must be). My issue is not that they are making money, but that they are doing so at the expense of the animals who so often end up on our anatomy tables.
I hope I'm not coming off as trying to attack you or be rude, I just enjoy a discussion!
H
hypochondroac
Guest
You **** stirrer, haha.
I agree that it's too generalised but at the same time i understand how it got this way.
I've visited a few really good pet stores, nice and clean, good looking animals, plenty of staff, mostly average looking stores and one REALLY bad place that has been subject of discussion on APS many times so i'd say the care of the animals wasn't the biggest factor that was letting them down for me.
I don't agree with selling certain animals to the public from pet stores (i'm actually mainly thinking of dogs here) because it does give the careless non research seeking type of shoppers a chance to take home an animal that they otherwise may not consider but the licensing system does decrease the chances of that when it comes to reptiles.. maybe it's a good thing they're so over priced, deter said idiotic buyers.
All in all i'll shop at the few good stores i referred to for select supplies (if i've not already gotten it from the internet) and i'll keep buying my animals from reputable breeders no matter what the species. I guess my opinion is a little from column A and B.
I agree that it's too generalised but at the same time i understand how it got this way.
I've visited a few really good pet stores, nice and clean, good looking animals, plenty of staff, mostly average looking stores and one REALLY bad place that has been subject of discussion on APS many times so i'd say the care of the animals wasn't the biggest factor that was letting them down for me.
I don't agree with selling certain animals to the public from pet stores (i'm actually mainly thinking of dogs here) because it does give the careless non research seeking type of shoppers a chance to take home an animal that they otherwise may not consider but the licensing system does decrease the chances of that when it comes to reptiles.. maybe it's a good thing they're so over priced, deter said idiotic buyers.
All in all i'll shop at the few good stores i referred to for select supplies (if i've not already gotten it from the internet) and i'll keep buying my animals from reputable breeders no matter what the species. I guess my opinion is a little from column A and B.
Kristy_07
Very Well-Known Member
Thanks, Phil. While I knew you studied vet, I hadn't considered that your opinion would be based around the animals that end up on your anat&biol lab tables. I studied wildlife, so didn't deal with domestic carcasses for prac
I agree that the number of dogs and cats going through shelters every year is terrible. That said, I believe this could be solved more efficiently by dealing with the registration and breeding laws than stopping stores from selling livestock. Yes, there is a certain amount of "impulse buying" in pet shops. That said, the stores I worked in never released an animal, of any species, if we felt that the potential buyer was unprepared, with too little knowledge, and was unprepared to buy whatever supplies they needed to be prepared. If someone didn't know they wanted a pet rat or bird or fish when they came in, but fell in love and were prepared to spend the time talking to us about the care needs of the animal, and then spend the money to buy the right supplies, then we sold them the animal. If they came in and fell in love with a puppy on the eve of their gf's birthday, but weren't prepared to buy food, collar, worming etc. we refused the sale. Also, as mentioned, the prices of puppies in pet stores is ridiculous, which, if anything, discourages impulse buying. It's just as easy to not research an animal, and buy it off trading post or gumtree for $50 than be grilled by pet shop staff.
I agree that the number of dogs and cats going through shelters every year is terrible. That said, I believe this could be solved more efficiently by dealing with the registration and breeding laws than stopping stores from selling livestock. Yes, there is a certain amount of "impulse buying" in pet shops. That said, the stores I worked in never released an animal, of any species, if we felt that the potential buyer was unprepared, with too little knowledge, and was unprepared to buy whatever supplies they needed to be prepared. If someone didn't know they wanted a pet rat or bird or fish when they came in, but fell in love and were prepared to spend the time talking to us about the care needs of the animal, and then spend the money to buy the right supplies, then we sold them the animal. If they came in and fell in love with a puppy on the eve of their gf's birthday, but weren't prepared to buy food, collar, worming etc. we refused the sale. Also, as mentioned, the prices of puppies in pet stores is ridiculous, which, if anything, discourages impulse buying. It's just as easy to not research an animal, and buy it off trading post or gumtree for $50 than be grilled by pet shop staff.
Kristy_07
Very Well-Known Member
Recognise :lol:
shellfisch
Very Well-Known Member
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I agree.
I am a big believer in dogs and cats being de-sexed prior to sale.
I am against pet shops selling cute little puppies and kittens.
My opinion is that this tends to result in spur of the moment sales, and they are the animals that get dumped in shelters a few months later, when they are not so cute, crapping everywhere and chewing up your stuff - usually because the new owners don't provide enough exercise and attention for them.
My theory is, that if people don't buy from pet shops they will stop stocking them....which is totally unrealistic, I know....
Wild~Touch
Very Well-Known Member
Reason: 300% markup
J
junglepython2
Guest
1. Disease risk, there is next to no quarantine and animals are sourced from all over the place. It's a nasty virus' paradise, not to mention mites.
2. Often no real information on the animal you are buying. Locale, feed history, parents etc.
3. Price
2. Often no real information on the animal you are buying. Locale, feed history, parents etc.
3. Price
PhilK
Very Well-Known Member
I agree Kristy, as I said it is foolish to blame the pet shops entirely for the amount of animals going through shelters each year, but they certainly contribute. The real problem needs to be nipped in the bud by only allowing registered breeders to sell puppies and kittens etc and perhaps mandatory desexing of all companion animals unless going to a registered breeder - this would be hard to instigate and police. However passing a law to prevent pet shops from selling puppies and kittens certainly can only help.
It is depressing that every dog we operate on, do practice post mortems on or cut up for anatomy is generally no older than a year and if preventing pet shops from selling will decrease this number at all then I think it is worth it.
There was a lot of controversy from the public, and certain hippy groups, about the use of pound dogs that were being euthanased for surgery practice etc.. everyone really kicked up a stink, but nobody from the public seemed to see the real issue and ask themselves WHY there was so many bloody dogs available from the pound (100s of 1000s like I said).
It is depressing that every dog we operate on, do practice post mortems on or cut up for anatomy is generally no older than a year and if preventing pet shops from selling will decrease this number at all then I think it is worth it.
There was a lot of controversy from the public, and certain hippy groups, about the use of pound dogs that were being euthanased for surgery practice etc.. everyone really kicked up a stink, but nobody from the public seemed to see the real issue and ask themselves WHY there was so many bloody dogs available from the pound (100s of 1000s like I said).
Tinky
Very Well-Known Member
Would stating that because it is ilegal in NSW be stating the obvious and unhelpful.
Having said that there are several local 'pet shops' that sell fish and reptile accessories, (no dogs, cats or birds) and they know their stuff fairly well, and offer reasonable advise on the care of your creature.
Of course while they donot sell reptiles from the shop, they all know a good breader who can sell them what they want, (wink wink, no what I mean).
Having said that there are several local 'pet shops' that sell fish and reptile accessories, (no dogs, cats or birds) and they know their stuff fairly well, and offer reasonable advise on the care of your creature.
Of course while they donot sell reptiles from the shop, they all know a good breader who can sell them what they want, (wink wink, no what I mean).
Twin_Rivers
Active Member
I have a pet shop unfortunately in NSW we cannot sell reptiles. As you say prices in pet shops are much too high, however i am yet to find anywhere website other store etc that sell products cheaper than me.
Pet shops do not give the required service or know anything about reptiles. I recently had a customer around showing her the difference between stimsoni and childreni how I set up and maintain my enclosures even how I thaw and feed. I gave her an indepth care sheet for the python she was interested in, put her in touch with 2 breeders with good reputations to give her a choice, gave her all the licencing information.
It will be like anything else in, in any business certain shops will get a reputation, good or bad. It will be the difference between buying a snake from a reputable breeder or the guy with a pair of childrens that wants $100 each for them.
I know there are plenty of shops out there which are an embarrassment, but to generalise as much as you do is wrong.
Pet shops do not give the required service or know anything about reptiles. I recently had a customer around showing her the difference between stimsoni and childreni how I set up and maintain my enclosures even how I thaw and feed. I gave her an indepth care sheet for the python she was interested in, put her in touch with 2 breeders with good reputations to give her a choice, gave her all the licencing information.
It will be like anything else in, in any business certain shops will get a reputation, good or bad. It will be the difference between buying a snake from a reputable breeder or the guy with a pair of childrens that wants $100 each for them.
I know there are plenty of shops out there which are an embarrassment, but to generalise as much as you do is wrong.
snakehandler
Very Well-Known Member
The main issue I have with pet stores in general, not just the ones that can sell reptiles, is that there is a lot of misinformation given. Many products sold are not needed, overpriced and designed to make the most of the keepers. Examples include light globes, water bowls and other accessories. Ask yourself when you look at the products, what is here that I actually need? Lights unless there is a UV requirement (only clearly demonstrated beneficial to some lizards) can be purchased for about $1.50 at your local lighting store, instead of the reptile brands that are around $7-$15 and have the same effectiveness. Reptile hand wash is simply aqium with a green dye in it, so why pay so much, go to the Chemists warehouse and get it.
Also the inexperience of those selling the animals, I have heard a number of stores here in Victoria tell people that scrubbies are great first snakes, lacies make wonderful pets that you can easily tame and that monitors do not need a great deal of space or heat! Staff should be required to have knowledge about the products and animals they sell, but regardless of the type of animal sold they rarely have this knowledge.
Also the inexperience of those selling the animals, I have heard a number of stores here in Victoria tell people that scrubbies are great first snakes, lacies make wonderful pets that you can easily tame and that monitors do not need a great deal of space or heat! Staff should be required to have knowledge about the products and animals they sell, but regardless of the type of animal sold they rarely have this knowledge.
bellslace
Not so new Member
kristy07 the simple answer is because the bad ones are in easy view. Anyone can walk into a pet shop and look at the quality of livestock and keeping practises and scrutinise for atleast 8 hours a day seven days a week. You can't do this to a breeders personal collection or a vet clinic. If you could, you would notice the same thing, infact IMO, it would be worse for many breeders of companion animals.
Yes there are some really bad stores that should be closed down. But think about this, for every bad pet shop out there, there are litterally hundreds of bad breeders supplying those stores not caring about where their animals are going to and how they are cared for after they leave their charge.
Australia in actual fact has very few "puppy farms" most found in South Australia. All reptiles, birds and small animals are from breeders. Most fish are imported from Asia. My partner ran a pet store for well over a decade and his biggest complaint was the quality of poor breeders only interested in how much they could make from their pets.
So it really comes down to the fact that petstores are in the public eye, therefor easy targets.
Avoid the bad, support the good.
Yes there are some really bad stores that should be closed down. But think about this, for every bad pet shop out there, there are litterally hundreds of bad breeders supplying those stores not caring about where their animals are going to and how they are cared for after they leave their charge.
Australia in actual fact has very few "puppy farms" most found in South Australia. All reptiles, birds and small animals are from breeders. Most fish are imported from Asia. My partner ran a pet store for well over a decade and his biggest complaint was the quality of poor breeders only interested in how much they could make from their pets.
So it really comes down to the fact that petstores are in the public eye, therefor easy targets.
Avoid the bad, support the good.
syeph8
Very Well-Known Member
hahah blame adelaide!
I do agree with the rest of it though, the onus is on the breeder to ensure that the person or people they are selling it to can care for it. There are a few good pet stores around, but at the end of the day they are stores and all stores try to sell sell sell, thats how they survive. but i go to amazing amazon regularly for products (fish food, bulbs, furnishings, 2 snakes, fish, tank equipment) and get good advice and have good chats frequently with them and feel they provide high quality care for all their animals and follow-up advice to their clients. in fact 1600 for an albino hatchie isnt that bad on price either! have unfortunately seen many other stores (that i probably shouldnt name) that have quite the opposite mission, so i can understand where the apprehension comes from.
maybe ill get a discount after this post
but i think its worth a mention for melbournians- Status
