Phew. That was SCARY

[Tsubakai]

Maybe when I have more patience I'll go back through this thread and address all the misconceptions stated so far but, frankly, I can't be bothered at the moment. The one thing I can't let pass is the fact that killing the snake does NO good whatsoever except potentially give us two patients to deal with.

I am a doctor who has specialised in Intensive Care so I think this means I can speak with some authority on the topic so, if anyone reads this thread and are not sure what to do - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO KILL THE SNAKE. Apply appropriate first aid measures and call an ambulance.

Honestly, I could write pages on the idiots who have been bitten trying to catch/kill the snake but even worse are those who bring in a live snake then have it escape in the hospital putting countless people at risk.

Let me know if I haven't made myself clear so I can try to explain it clearer if necessary.

 

[Fuscus]

...Thank god they didn't rely on your method...

So - explain how not relying on "My" method changed the outcome ?

 

[Wild~Touch]

Maybe when I have more patience I'll go back through this thread and address all the misconceptions stated so far but, frankly, I can't be bothered at the moment. The one thing I can't let pass is the fact that killing the snake does NO good whatsoever except potentially give us two patients to deal with.

I am a doctor who has specialised in Intensive Care so I think this means I can speak with some authority on the topic so, if anyone reads this thread and are not sure what to do - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO KILL THE SNAKE. Apply appropriate first aid measures and call an ambulance.

Honestly, I could write pages on the idiots who have been bitten trying to catch/kill the snake but even worse are those who bring in a live snake then have it escape in the hospital putting countless people at risk.

Let me know if I haven't made myself clear so I can try to explain it clearer if necessary.

Thank you ... may commonsense prevail
Cheers
Sandee

 

[waruikazi]

I've looked several times to no avail to find statistics on how snake bites have occurred, about all that i can find is the stats of keepers vs. non-keepers and total numbers.

Do you have access to these stats that could be made public? Statistics like bites caused by trying to catch/kill/stepped on etc etc?

Has anyone else here been in for snake bite and not had a VDK administered? I have, it was a little concerning lol.

Maybe when I have more patience I'll go back through this thread and address all the misconceptions stated so far but, frankly, I can't be bothered at the moment. The one thing I can't let pass is the fact that killing the snake does NO good whatsoever except potentially give us two patients to deal with.

I am a doctor who has specialised in Intensive Care so I think this means I can speak with some authority on the topic so, if anyone reads this thread and are not sure what to do - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO KILL THE SNAKE. Apply appropriate first aid measures and call an ambulance.

Honestly, I could write pages on the idiots who have been bitten trying to catch/kill the snake but even worse are those who bring in a live snake then have it escape in the hospital putting countless people at risk.

Let me know if I haven't made myself clear so I can try to explain it clearer if necessary.

 

[moosenoose]

I've always enjoyed the "bringing the snake in for ID" line. Who's going to ID it? The Doctor? The Nurse? Maybe the janitor? God helpthe victim if that's the case! :lol: .....VDK's! Simple, fast, effective and removes the guesswork!

 

[Wild~Touch]

Gordo
Have a look at www.WHC clinical toxinology resources or Dr.Bryan Frys www.venondoc.com
Heaps of interesting stuff therein
Cheers
Sandee

 

[redbellybite]

My Husband was bitten back this year in MARCH ...he was bitten on the thumb and stuck his thumb in his mouth (first reaction) so the venom was not able to be detected from the scrape ,but the urine/blood tests showed exactly what he had been bitten by ,THEY DO THIS BEFORE GIVING ANY ANTI VEN ...it was confirmed to be an eastern brown and he had a full blown hot as pumped up toxic bite ...BUT THE SNAKE WASNT KILLED ...poor thing had to be euthed as it had a severe injury ,which I euth'd it myself,but DOCTORS will tell you they are NO SNAKE ID EXPERT so bringing in a dead snake is USELESS and totally unnessary and totally DANGEROUS you are putting yourself at risk of getting bitten too!!!..I knew by looking at the snake ,but Im a snake catcher ,what had bitten my husband ,and after the tests were done they knew too ... INVENOMATION DOESNT ALWAYS OCCUR ,,,even with highly venomous snakes such as the eastern brown ,you can get DRY BITES ...the hospital will keep you in under observation to make sure all is well ...FIRST AID IS WHAT IS NEEDED TO BE CONCERNTRATED ON AFTER A SNAKE BITE OR EVEN A SUSPECTED SNAKE BITE NOT GO OUT AND KILL THE SNAKE ....

 

[Jay84]

Maybe when I have more patience I'll go back through this thread and address all the misconceptions stated so far but, frankly, I can't be bothered at the moment. The one thing I can't let pass is the fact that killing the snake does NO good whatsoever except potentially give us two patients to deal with.

I am a doctor who has specialised in Intensive Care so I think this means I can speak with some authority on the topic so, if anyone reads this thread and are not sure what to do - DO NOT ATTEMPT TO KILL THE SNAKE. Apply appropriate first aid measures and call an ambulance.

Honestly, I could write pages on the idiots who have been bitten trying to catch/kill the snake but even worse are those who bring in a live snake then have it escape in the hospital putting countless people at risk.

Let me know if I haven't made myself clear so I can try to explain it clearer if necessary.

My Husband was bitten back this year in MARCH ...he was bitten on the thumb and stuck his thumb in his mouth (first reaction) so the venom was not able to be detected from the scrape ,but the urine/blood tests showed exactly what he had been bitten by ,THEY DO THIS BEFORE GIVING ANY ANTI VEN ...it was confirmed to be an eastern brown and he had a full blown hot as pumped up toxic bite ...BUT THE SNAKE WASNT KILLED ...poor thing had to be euthed as it had a severe injury ,which I euth'd it myself,but DOCTORS will tell you they are NO SNAKE ID EXPERT so bringing in a dead snake is USELESS and totally unnessary and totally DANGEROUS you are putting yourself at risk of getting bitten too!!!..I knew by looking at the snake ,but Im a snake catcher ,what had bitten my husband ,and after the tests were done they knew too ... INVENOMATION DOESNT ALWAYS OCCUR ,,,even with highly venomous snakes such as the eastern brown ,you can get DRY BITES ...the hospital will keep you in under observation to make sure all is well ...FIRST AID IS WHAT IS NEEDED TO BE CONCERNTRATED ON AFTER A SNAKE BITE OR EVEN A SUSPECTED SNAKE BITE NOT GO OUT AND KILL THE SNAKE ....

Some great info there guys to try and clarify al these misconceptions of the need to kill the snakes!!!!

So this poor little whip snake was killed for no reason........ lovely.

Also, as asked earlier, what were the circumstances of your mums bite?

 

[Fuscus]

I've always enjoyed the "bringing the snake in for ID" line. Who's going to ID it? The Doctor? The Nurse? Maybe the janitor? God helpthe victim if that's the case! :lol: .....VDK's! Simple, fast, effective and removes the guesswork!

Had a quick chat with my wife about what she does when someone presents a snake in ED. Her answer - run out of the room!

 

[da_donkey]

Nathan T - you really are very nieve and obviosly new to herptocultue, i hope that you have a good think before you next posts.

donks

 

[slim6y]

Nathan T - you really are very nieve and obviosly new to herptocultue, i hope that you have a good think before you next posts.

donks

That's one way to look at it donks

The other way is he was making a valid argument based on documents supplied.

However... I also agree whole-heartedly with moosenoose - who's going to identify this snake?

I've seen snake identification threads on this site with so called experts who have either got it wrong or have had to argue the point... A doctor, a janitor, the cafeteria staff... most probably aren't herpetologists, biologists etc.

The VDK is a tool - not 100% infallible (as with most medical sciences) - however - it is the most advanced method of identifying venom type that we currently have available.

Killing the snake does not help in the identification and in many cases puts a second or more people in danger of also being envenomated.

Sensible... Not....

 

[da_donkey]

its pretty simple people...

The VDK is used to indentify which antivenom is needed "if" signs of envenomation occur after the PIB is removed.

No doctor, nurse or ganitor with half a brain in there head is going to put there neck on the line and positivly identify a snake and administer antivenom based on there ID.

Therefore there is absoulutly No reason for anyone else to put themselves in danger by trying to capture or kill the snake in question.

The original post and some following posts just prove that there is still a lack of education amongst the general public regarding snakes and snake bite.

In no way am i having a go at the original poster, just sad to see a gorgeous little Whippy get killed for no reason.

donks

 

[da_donkey]

BTW i read last week that BHP saliva can give a false positive for tiger snake venom with the VDK.

So even in saying this.........the 2 scenarios have the same outcome.

Present to hospital with No dead BHP

VDK kit shows Tiger venom on bite site, patient is monitored for signs of enveomation after removal of PIB, no signs of enveomation, patient is discharged with nothing worse than some IV fluids and a tetnus shot.

BHP goes on to breed and be happy


Present to hospital with dead BHP

VDK kit shows Tiger venom on bite site, patient is monitored for signs of enveomation after removal of PIB, no signs of enveomation, patient is discharged with nothing worse than some IV fluids and a tetnus shot.

BHP goes on to be some heros story down at the pub, and its one less python out there making babies :-(



donks

 

[burger]

do you think if we asked the mods really nicely, that certain people could be banned from making threads?

no names mentioned... just saying.

 

[burger]

.

 

[Kristy_07]

So unnecessarily nasty, it had to be said twice!

 

[redbellybite]

do you think if we asked the mods really nicely, that certain people could be banned from making threads?

no names mentioned... just saying.

and who are you aiming this at? .......this is a debate subject ..and hopefully now some will see that it is not the right thing to do KILL SNAKE FOR ID ....and learn something from this .

 

[burger]

hopefully now some will see that it is not the right thing to do KILL SNAKE FOR ID ....and learn something from this .

agreed.

 

[Nathan_T]

No they wouldn't. They would have waited to see IF she became symptomatic then administered whatever antivenom was indicated by the results of the SVDK. No symptoms - No antivenom.

Medical Treatment of snakebite


Its hard enough for knowledgable people here to identify some snakes, and you want a doctor who has no snake experience to identify a snake by a chart on the hospital wall and administer treatment based on that?

Cheers for that link Firepac, all I needed was evidence that a dead snake served no purpose in standard treatment practises. For those wondering about my logic, it was just that if I had reason to believe killing a snake would be a) of no danger to someone and b) possibly assist in saving someone's life, I'd have no problems doing so. Since firepac indicated b was incorrect, I have no reason to do so. Cheers for your patience firepac, while I hope never to be in that situation you may have just saved a snake's life

 

[snakeluvver]

Also would you ever rely on a doctor giving a accurate ID, some cant even tell that you have a shattered knee cap!!! As has been said they do a swab then wait to see the results and go from there. Anti venom is a last resort!

it was definatly a wip snake