Regulated taking of wildlife.

[Bluetongue1]

Fay,
Wild taking In WA is self-limiting. Collectors have to pay for... car and running costs, their time and energy spent out in the field, a royalty on every animal collected, a GPS of a certain standard to take readings of the collection point. They have paperwork to fill in for each and evey animal collected requiring the GPS co-ordinates of the point of collection. They must obtain prior permission of the land owner and send copy to DEC and keep a copy on them while collecting. They must hang onto all animals collected for at least 21 days.

To be competitive and maintain a sound reputation, they also need to get these animals feeding and frozen rodents, settled in captivity and wormed to get rid internal of parasite loads.

Appearance and eating being equal, would you buy captive bred or wild caught? Once supply meets demand due to the production of captive born offspring, it is no longer economically viable for a taker to collect wild specimens.

So why allow further collection? Occasionally collectors come across a specimen that stands out as different and has real potential for bringing something different or new to the hobby. Also, there are certain keepers who like to breed animals of a specific locale. They may wish to replace a lost animal or to reinvigorate the gene pool of their captive animals. This is, in fact, a very wise thing to do from time to time. It is not often possible to buy animals from a given locale with absolute surety of their true genetic origins. However, for those prepared to pay the extra the can be guaranteed by wild collection. So long as there is no change in the conservation status of an animal listed as available to be collected in WA, there is no need to remove it from the taker's list.

Let's take a real life example of an extremely desirable and popular reptile. There were many prophets who maintain that womas would be endangered under the wild taking arrangement. There were even those who forecast extinction of WA populations. As Pilbara Pythons and others around the state will tell you, the reality is that the general population in WA has increased over the taking period (due to natural factors). As best as I can ascertain it is virtually no longer being collected. I suspect we will see a decline in the overall population in the coming years, due to natural fluctuations/cycles (if you like) and it will be when collecting has ceased.

Blue

 

[Morgwynn]

Both Rustys and Broadys are not classified as least concern, secondly habitat destruction is the primary cause for decline not collection for trade...
.

Was that not what you asked for? Both of those species were both abundant, once, and now they are not, with overcollection as one of the culprits.

Look, I'm not arguing that all collection from the wild is bad, but I don't think it should be in the hands of every private keeper. Population surveys of common reptiles are not conducted with anything near enough frequency for the relevant authority to keep track. Which is why I said, earlier in the thread, that only persons of relevant experience should be allowed to collect limited numbers of certain types of animals. People who have a good reason for bringing the animal into captivity. I'm sorry, but I don't think "This is a pretty pet, people will give me lots of money for it" is a good enough reason to remove animals from their native environment. As GeckoPhotographer said, any such system would have to be strictly controlled as to the who, why, when and what is allowed to be collected.

I said it earlier, but the Rough Scale Python is a perfect example of how it should be done. John Weigel had the knowledge, experience and money to work out specific husbandry guidelines for the species and they are now readily available in the pet trade.

What I am arguing against is unregulated or poorly regulated collection by every day keepers, who may just see something they like in the bush and bring it home with no research or consideration into what the animals require. And if it's cheap or free to just go pick up another one, what does it matter if it dies? You've all seen the posts on here from people who get animals and end up killing them through sheer ignorance... would you trust those people to responsibly collect wild animals and research their needs?

Also, apologies, GeckPhotographer is right. My last comment about people not wanting 'common' species was not thought out at all, just a poor reaction.

 

[nathancl]

im a twat lol dw

 

[Pseudo]

I would love to argue with longi, but it seems I would be banging my head on a brick wall. Eipper and Echiopsis have covered it well. I find it amusing that one can claim that ALL but 1 reptile species in Aus are declining. I think you've spent too much time on that island of yours. There is a long list of reptiles that are far from on the decline, although I wish Cryptophis nigrescens was on that "decline" list of yours!

 

[eipper]

If you re read the original post it is about species of least concern, not species in apparent recent decline (in both cases more likely habitat destruction rather than collection). In the case of both of these species I have little knowledge of their specific habits first hand, so I may stand corrected but as I understand....

In the case of both these species they are both micro and macro habitat specific


Semi's were collected en mass in the seventies. Yes indeed many died in the hands of keepers. At the same time many resorts bulldozed mangroves to make way for marinas and the like. Thus reducing available habitat causing decline. From the people in qpws that have surveyed for them they are in quite good numbers where the habitat remains good. While granted there is probably less of this species being taken from the wild at present than previously I think it shows that reduction in habitat is of great ( if not greater) significance than apparent collection.

For hops these are in part sandstone specialists, that have a historically small distribution. The available habitat for these snakes is greatly reduced by housing, habitat fragmentation, feral impact in particular goats and the collection of rock for landscaping. They are a snake that has been of interest for many years prior to blanket protection by wildlife officials and subsequently collected quite commonly. I do not doubt that many hops have been collected and their numbers are reduced from the time of white settlement, however I don't believe that the primary cause for their decline is collection by keepers. Could they have an impact now? I certainly think they would... It's a species in demand with very specific requirements, low fecundity hence why they are on the vulnerable list not least concern.

Both of these species in what I proposed would require approval for collection.

 

[colubridking]

longqi......?? im still interested in your ideas and visuals on this subject???

 

[Bluetongue1]

Morgwynn,
In the days before regulation in NSW, you could catch and keep what you wanted and pet shops were able to sell reptiles. To my knowledge no species, or even population, was decimated through collection. (I am happy to talk about the Broad-headed Snake if you are interested.)

Given the size of the potential herp market in Australia, I believe if you allowed nation-wide taking of all "least concern" species with no limits, there would be no species negatively impacted upon (assuming no habitat damage). The value of wild-caught specimens would fall through the floor. People would soon realise that wild-caught specimens are a lot more initial work than captive bred, requiring a certain set of skills to get them up to par. There are only so many reptiles you can keep and feed and water and house and pay the electricity on etc. They would also realise it is cheaper to buy most species at home than travel thousands of kilometres to procure wild-caught specimens. Reality would quickly overtake greed, particularly when you no longer have a market to off-load wild caught animals on. Once the dust settled, most individuals would not be overly interested in wild collected. Attention would be on rarer captive bred morphs, while naturally occurring animals would be mostly considered just "ho-hum!"

There are, however, other issues that need to be looked at...
The potential for habitat destruction by uncaring and irresponsible collectors;
Excessive collection due to greed and resultant death of animals;
Collection on a commercial scale;
Collection by those lacking the expertise and/or equipment to provide required care;
Release of excess collected animals;
Release of animals owners are bored with so they can collect something different;
If it doesn't cost, it often doesn't get looked after;
Indiscriminate inter-breeding of different sub-species and possible release.

So while I have no concerns with respect to numbers collected, I have lots of other concerns that I believe do need to be addressed. Regulation is clearly required in order to address the issues listed. But that regulation needs to be realistic, effective and appropriate. The checks and balances put in place to ensure the regulations are being adhered to also need to be realistic, effective and appropriate. Most importantly, they need to actually happen!

Blue