Reptiles from zoo's

[RSPcrazy]

I got my female Roughie from Cairns Tropical Zoo almost 2 years ago now, $800 for a 3 year old Roughie at that stage was pretty good. The average price for that age was around $1000-$1200 from what I could see anyway.

 

[PythonLegs]

Licensing for crocs is ridiculous. I know of many members on this site who would benefit greatly from 5 minutes with an adult saltie.

 

[thomasssss]

You have to be licenced under a non-indigenous animal permit (or and exhibitors permit) issued by the nsw dpi, they assess them on a case by case basis, I know of 5 other private keepers in nsw with crocs and all have similiar qualifications, your very bare minimum is a certificate 3 in captive animal management, you then need to prove at least 12 months experience in working with or around crocs (they ask for experience working with neonates to the giants) and have at least 2 references to say you have what it takes (mine came from some big names). You need to prove your enclosure will be secure and comply with dpi rules and regs and you need to provide a plan of what will come of the animal when it gets bigger or should something happen to you (mine goes back to reptile park in the event i can no longer care for him). The dpi have sadly in recent years become less willing to grant class 3a and 3b permits to private holders but its still possible if you put the effort in. Its not a cheap investment though, for licence your looking at $80 a year and enclosures run around the $3000 mark, plus you need your certificates and be prepared to kiss a while lot of *** I will upload some pics later on of my little guy for you guys to take a look at

cheers mate i know i wont be able to have one for a very long time if ever but its good to have a rough idea of what i would have to do to be able to get one seems like alot but im sure it'd be worth it id love to see some pics if you don't mind

 

[GeckPhotographer]

This looks like it could become a very interesting thread. The concept of buying and keeping animals produced by zoos is intriguing to me. I believe I once inquired about Taronga zoo providing a certain species to the public with the correct license as the particular species was being produced in excess to a level they were apparently euthanized. The answer I received was that it was illegal for the zoo to provide these animals to members of the public even if they had the correct license to keep this animal.

I of course later found out that Melbourne Zoo regularly released stock of certain animals to the public leading me to some level of confusion.

I'd be very interesting in learning about the legality of particular zoos releasing what animals to who and the ways it is possible to contact zoos to obtain these types of animals.

 

[crocodile_dan]

Taronga and Melbourne are publicly run facilities (state government) so there would likely be variation between institutions. Excess stock in zoos is kept to a minimum as there are only a certain number of places available for such stock. The most readily available stock to the public would come from smaller zoological facilities (especially private), it is extremely lucky that an institution such as Melbourne Zoo (and by association Zoos Victoria) deals with private hobbyists, this may be a potential avenue for dwarf freshwater crocs to enter the hobby.

On a side note there was talk of the potential for emerald monitors to enter the Australian Zoo's system due to a smuggling bust some moths ago, this discussion is on a separate forum. Whilst I don't know if they did go into a zoo it would hold the potential for big things depending of course on several factors.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

On a side note there was talk of the potential for emerald monitors to enter the Australian Zoo's system due to a smuggling bust some moths ago, this discussion is on a separate forum. Whilst I don't know if they did go into a zoo it would hold the potential for big things depending of course on several factors.

It is my belief that a similar smuggling bust not the one you are talking about some time ago Emerald Monitors were collected and several zoos were very interested but the monitors were still Euthenazed.


When you say private Zoological institutions what exactly do you mean? It is quite unfortunate that people who collect animals for scientific research cannot have these enter the trade. However I do recognize the reasons in that people would come up with "bogus" science simply to try and make a profit in introducing animals to the hobby.

 

[richardsc]

emerald trees i doubt would ever be released to private keepers,in australia,they would be classed as exotic as there origin wouldnt be 100 percent proven and they wont want another green tree python thing happening with folk jibbing on non aussie ones and claiming them aussie,you would have more hope with the keithhorni,s and that will be a big ask,lol

unless some institution collects them from the wild,and breeds them,emerald trees from the torres straits,theres buckleys of them being released to the private trade

hint hint gavin bedford john weigal,lol

 

[crocodile_dan]

Zoological facilities are either private or publicly funded, publicly funded zoos are government run eg. Taronga, Zoos Victoria whilst privately run zoos are essentially funded by private individual/s eg. Australia Zoo, Zoos SA, Mogo Zoo. Basically the smaller the facility the more likely they are to deal with the public, many smaller facilities do just enough to stay afloat financially and even the larger zoos aren't exactly a great financial investment. So many will welcome additional income (when and where they can accommodate it).

In regards to your scientific research statement whilst most study animals need to be euthanized at the conclusion of research due to ethics approval, I do know that in some cases this is not the case. I know for sure at the University of Queensland arafura filesnakes were released into the care of the researcher (I believe it was a PhD student) these would possibly comprise the majority of captive filesnakes in the hobby I'm assuming.

Regarding Emerald monitors, yes many of those factors and more would inhibit them coming into the hobby, but it would still be the slightest of potential opportunities for an avenue into private hands.

 

[butters]

I have quite a few animals that have to come to me via the zoo or wildlife park system. Zoos and parks put a very different monetary value on their animals. Most of the animals that would be of interest to most on these forums go for very little. Often a fraction of the market price when traded between facilities and in many cases it's not a sale as such but simply a swap.
Unless it is endangered or threatened and a specific breeding programme has been set up , breeding of these animals is usually by accident and in many cases actively discouraged from what I have seen.

Many species of australian reptile that were once in the zoo system no longer are. Same goes for many of the smaller marsupials. Zoos just can't be bothered breeding them.

If the zoo is a member of ARAZPA then trading with private individuals is a big no-no. It's not against the law but is against group rules in a broad sense. It does happen but is very rare. Most ARAZPA animals are traded between members not outside of the group. If you have managed to get one from them you are very lucky.

Private organizations are a different kettle of fish. Australia Zoo for example is a bit of a bottomless pit of animals. Many go in ( and they are happy to get them from private individuals) but very little gets out. Australia Zoo does not sell to private individuals. They'll take your animals ( and be insulted you won't just give it to them for free) but won't trade you anything back.

All of the animals I have received from the zoo system have been great animals and I think it is sad in many ways that more of it doesn't happen. If it did then zoos would be more inclined to breed the animals they have as they wouldn't have to be worried about what to do with the excess stock. The reason some of these species are no longer in the zoos is that they didn't breed their animals and eventually they died of old age. As no one else had bothered to breed them and none were released to the public there now aren't any without a take from the wild permit. Sad really.

 

[GeckPhotographer]

In regards to your scientific research statement whilst most study animals need to be euthanized at the conclusion of research due to ethics approval, I do know that in some cases this is not the case. I know for sure at the University of Queensland arafura filesnakes were released into the care of the researcher (I believe it was a PhD student) these would possibly comprise the majority of captive filesnakes in the hobby I'm assuming.

That's very interesting in regard to a file snake being released. I must admit I only have only had dealings with people working in NSW and have had lengthy discussions with many of them about how possible it may be to have animals they are working on scientifically released and the answer to paraphrase has always been, 'not a hope in hell' .

It was put to me by someone, whom I don't even remember that since the ethics regulations usually take a kinder look at animals used in scientific study being taken by a zoo afterward, one could in theory get a scientific license to approve study on e.g. V.prasinus, collect 10 individuals and carry out the scientific study (or not carry it out as they fear will happen), give the animals to a zoo the person has good connections to, making a prior arrangement that a number would then be traded back to the person now on their normal license.

This btw is one of the best threads I've seen on this site... ever, thoroughly enjoy this discussion and thank the OP for bringing it up.

 

[crocodile_dan]

I am unsure how often researchers have access to claim study animals at the conclusion of research, all I can say for sure is I know of this case with filesnakes as my old lecturer was the supervisor. My impression of ethics approval would see it being harder to get approval for the animals to go to another person/facility at the completion of the study as ethics like to know that study animals are treated correctly during their entire life (going somewhere after study would be a bigger variable).

Most of my mates have gone on to do honours, and I know one person who did a study with Bryan Fry on perentie venom composition. Maybe I can try and bribe them to collect some species for "study"

There is definitely some hope (however fleeting and unlikely) that there are channels for introducing certain species into the hobby.

 

[butters]

I can tell you for a fact that the file snake reference is true as i have seen 2 of the animals released from the study myself. I had the offer of one of them but didn't have the correct facilities to house it , so declined.
From memory they were sold, not given away and they weren't on the cheap side.

I wish it was more widespread as my interest is in smaller skink species which are almost impossible to come by in the trade. Not really a commercially attractive group so no one is going to make big dollars from them or go to the same lengths as were taken to secure the roughies.