Squishy diamonds

[reptililian]

I've heard bits and pieces about "diamond syndrome" or "diamond disease" (and I'm guessing it's got nothing to do with the rock not being big enough).

Would someone please tell me some more about it? I have five diamonds - obtained in July - two of whom have soft, squishy bodies. Further, I suspect one of the squishies was power-fed as she has a funny little head. Am I correct in thinking this? Will this be detrimental to her health or longevity? Is the squishiness a sign of diamond disease? Is it something to worry about? They are currently kept indoors, however I do take them outside about twice a week. Would it be wise to put them in an avery? If so, for how much of the year.

Help! Lily.

 

[olivehydra]

There are a few different schools of thought re D.S. Personally I feel that it is temp driven and that diamonds should be cooled over winter even if not cycling for breeding. Lowering night time temps is also a good idea and outdoor housing in your area would do no harm. I have heard reports of wild diamonds with DS so I suppose the jury is definetly still out on this one. Yes the small head (pin head syndrome) is a sign of powerfeeding but most usually catch up to the norm. Exercise be it handling or "walkies" will help in improving muscle tone.

 

[zen]

Some comprehensive & interesting advice there.
Very interesting.

Sounds like it could be DPS to me. :?
:?: Does anyone have a list of symptoms of D.P.S?

Exercise be it handling or "walkies" will help in improving muscle tone.

I haven't heard of the "taking it for a walk" remedy before though. :!:
Interesting theory.

I wonder if D.P.S is caused by deficiency, temperature, or genetics :?:


Olivehydra, have you observed benefits from activity, in D.P.S sufferers. :?:

 

[zulu]

re Squishy

They can persist with the soft body and dull lack lustre skin color for a long time inside or outside,what kills them is usually melanomas and broken bones including the spine.When they get crook like this secondary diseases caused by a low imune system kick in such as phneumonia and stomatitis etc. Things to look for are tremors and abnormal body movements, ide say there would be several diseases bundled under the one condition,incorrect temperature regime may beone reason.

 

[olivehydra]

Dps usually starts to exhibit with respiratory distress followed by tremors or shaking which suggest to me a c.n.s. problem. I have seen individuals with respiratory issues (excess mucous) but tested negative for infection.The suggestion of exercise was purely to address symptomatic issues. If it has any beneficial effect on dps I dont know, but i doubt it. the fact that dps has been observed in wild specimens is the most interesting factor IMO. From what I've seen on this site perhaps "serpenttongue" is better qualified to comment regarding diamonds.

 

[zulu]

re Squishy

Can you fill me in on the reports of wild diamonds displaying the syndrome olivehydra,cant say ive ever seen a wild one with it ,ive seen that many sick diamonds and even coastals with it.Ive seen it mentioned about wild diamonds with it and no one went on to mention where and when etc and if they were examined by vetinarians. Cheersw colin

 

[olivehydra]

re Squishy

Can you fill me in on the reports of wild diamonds displaying the syndrome olivehydra,cant say ive ever seen a wild one with it ,ive seen that many sick diamonds and even coastals with it.Ive seen it mentioned about wild diamonds with it and no one went on to mention where and when etc and if they were examined by vetinarians. Cheersw colin

Dave and Tracy Barker reported it in the early nineties at Weigels park with a wild individual that was being housed temporarily before relocation. My memory aint that great so correct the where and when if anyone knows.

 

[zen]

Zulu said:-

soft body and dull lack lustre skin color...
...what kills them is usually melanomas and broken bones including the spine. When they get crook like this secondary diseases caused by a low imune system kick in such as phneumonia and stomatitis etc.

With those symptoms, it sounds similar to cancer or AIDS to me :!:
I wonder?
Curious that the nervous system packs it in as well! :?

I've never seen a wild one with it either.
I always assumed it was down to incorrect husbandry.

 

[zulu]

re Squishy

I dont know what it is Zen but ide say your right with the bad husbandry as ive seen many beautiful specimens go into capyivity over the years and end up dead .Sorry if it sounded unbelieving olive i just need to know if wild diamonds have been found with the syndrome,The onley sick diamonds ive found were after the big storm in wollongong,respiratory etc but wouldnt say it was DPS offhand also found a female that year being still followed by a male,it contained one giant slug and several small ones in the hard rubber like state.Those i massaged out of it with difficulty,very strange in that they seem like they were from the previous season and she was emaciated which didnt fit with a reproductive animal of breeding and laying season at the time,it was late november.

 

[reptililian]

I don't want to sound too defensive, but re incorrect husbandry I've only had these chaps for 4 mths. They came to me squishy. As far as I know, am doing everything by the book. As far as I know. Temps for diamonds? I even feed them the way Bob Wittey told me to (alter the size of their meals and time period between meals).

You're right though, Zen, it does sound very ominous. I'm reading all of this and getting more and more worried. Am relieved to be able to say that they have beautiful glossy skin, though (except when entering a shed of course). One of the big lads is even a green and gold (is that the correct term).

 

[BROWNS]

How old are the diamonds reptilian?Usually DPS kicks in with captive diamonds around 6-7 years old and they don't last much longer than that.There are also others that have kept them in captivity even in warm Northern Oz areas who's animals are very old and no probs.

I have heard from someone i believe who doesn't bullcrapo on and was told ther have definitely been wild carpets,not diamonds i don't think, that were free ranging animals that tested positive for IBD???WTF??

I know no further details although i'm sure it's documented somewhere,maybe NPWS, but it totally spun me out and obviously has to be introduced from captive aanimal exotics or natives.That makes me think of another topic i read which is differnt which i'll start a new thread on.

 

[shellshock]

sorry mate i mentioned it yesterday iread about this in "reptiles australia" magazine in an article "till death do us part" by "doc rock" part 1 of this story i dont think this has anything to do with your reptile although i am no expert
it has to do with when your diamond reaches sexual maturity make sure you try to introduce your reptile to hybernation to bring about breeding season horemones into him
i say him because i think it mainly affects males
this exclusive to diamond python i think so when winter comes just try and keep his enclosure to a cooler temp that diamond would enjoy during winter
i hope this is some help also try and order a back copy of this issue as i think not to much research has been done on this issue

 

[shellshock]

i cant imagine wild diamonds getting dps as almost certainly they hybernate
any correct info i can get would be great as iam moveing to cairns
sorry to hy jack your question hopefully we can both get held along with everybody else who finds this interesting

 

[zulu]

re Squishy

First i heard about DPS was when i went to visit a prominent herper a long time ago and we were talkind about diamonds and i asked why he didnt keep them and he said he had no luck with them and they was kept outside with UV etc.I was informed rthat the coastals did pretty well even kept outside south of the range since then ive seen many diamonds die inside and outside male and female usually but not always at maturity.Very frustrating and i have no solid answers,trueblue says always having some heat and a cool spot helps, ide say ime no further ahead knowledge wise than Dave Barkers assesment in POW Vol I. Its valuable to hear everyones experiences with diamonds both positive and negative.I left out that trueblue also avocates hibernation as some others such as serpentongue.

 

[reptililian]

You didn't hijack the qu. at all, shellshock. It's all relevent and helpful, if a little alarming. And if it's not relevant to me, no doubt it will be to someone else.

Browns, you asked how old they are. Not too sure, but The Curious Cat, my sweet little squishy with the pinhead, can't be that old as she's only small.

Perhaps I'm getting all freaked out about nothing. When I first adopted the collection The Curious Cat was very sick with both a respiratory infection and infectious stomatitis. My vet (Mark Simpson, Sugarloaf Animal Hosp. He's been recommended in the herp vet section, and I can't speak highly enough of him and his team) did a stellar job in saving her, and I'm sure if he was concerned about her squishiness than he would have said something to me. He's very thorough.

Interesting to read about DPS being seen in wild pythons. Terrifying to hear about wildies testing pos for IBD.

 

[serpenttongue]

I dont think that this is a problem that occurs with wild diamonds. That diamond mention in Barkers book was probably a long term captive that had escaped or been released.

I believe that DPS is caused by keeping diamonds warm day and night, all year long. Diamonds are not, and will never be BHP's,Olives,Carpets etc. So they shouldnt really be kept the same way. Diamonds need a drop of temps every night and then a very cool/cold winter, from early June until early Sept. The trick to keeping them indoors is not to have an enclosure with a warm end and a cool end, but to have an overall cold cage with one hot spot, which always only heats a small area of the cage. I also think that the hours of heat supplied should be taken into consideration. After keeping diamonds outdoors since 1987, and by watching their basking behaviour very closely i have noticed that diamonds will almost always bask until 10am and thats it. No more heat until the next morning. Instead they'll spend the rest of the day in the coolest areas of the cage (which is often the ground in a cold corner of the cage, temp about 20 degrees) . This is something that indoor diamonds cannot do because usually the cool end of the cage is about 26-27 degrees. So i think indoor diamonds could have their heat turned off by 1-2pm without any ill effect to them.

I also think that overfeeding is a problem and that diamonds should always be kept hungry.

Typical signs of DPS are flabby muscles, tremors, loss of strength, easily torn skin, and as it gets worse broken bones, most likely because the muscles are no longer strong enough to support the skeleton. Internal organs will probably suffer as well.

In its early stages DPS can be fixed, or at least brought to a halt by getting them outdoors with exposure to the sun and also by exposing them to the cold temps they're adapted to.

 

[zulu]

re Squishy

Good assesment serps,ide add that if people are going to keep diamonds outdoors they must be able to escape heat effectively in the enclosure,many setups dont provide retreats that are cool enough on hot days. Cheers colin.

 

[Slateman]

There are a few different schools of thought re D.S. Personally I feel that it is temp driven and that diamonds should be cooled over winter even if not cycling for breeding. Lowering night time temps is also a good idea and outdoor housing in your area would do no harm. I have heard reports of wild diamonds with DS so I suppose the jury is definetly still out on this one. Yes the small head (pin head syndrome) is a sign of powerfeeding but most usually catch up to the norm. Exercise be it handling or "walkies" will help in improving muscle tone.

There must be something right about yout theory hydra.
I did not heard many cases of diamond syndrom from people who are keeping them outside all year long. Mabe the temperature drops during the night and winter is the magic.

If anybody who is keeping diamonds outside had diamond syndrom problem, please post it here, it would be nice to confirm if this is right.

 

[serpenttongue]

re Squishy

Good assesment serps,ide add that if people are going to keep diamonds outdoors they must be able to escape heat effectively in the enclosure,many setups dont provide retreats that are cool enough on hot days. Cheers colin.

Yep, thats why i cover my avairies with green shadecloth and just cut out a window for them to bask in direct, unfiltered sunlight. It seems to me that diamonds aren't too fond of intense, bright sunlight when actively moving about, only when basking. The shade cloth helps keep certain areas of the avairy cool.

 

[Slateman]

I just make sure that at least one of hiding boxes is in shade and they can get suny spot if they like.
I like your setup serp.