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cris said:
If/when it goes to court it will be interesting to see the judges responce when the best thing the prosecution can come up with is a petition.

It wouldnt go to court based only on this Petition :roll:

Ray Hoser is performing a illegal operation that he isnt qualified for!

Even if your all for the Voiding of venomous snakes, the fact remains Ray Hoser shouldnt be doing it himself.


IF the snake does have full feeling thoughout the surgery its almost as cruel as fishing with a hook, apart from it being supervised and given the required medical treament etc. I would sign a petition against fishing before signing this witch hunt and i like going fishing.

Your right you should always atleast put the fish in your fridge first :lol:

Matt
 
Doesn't really matter if fish can feel pain or not......it's about snakes lol.

Snakes?? Oh, i thought it was about Shane seeking revenge for the threats Ray made against him? :lol:
 
To the best of my knowledge, fish don't feel pain..?
I cant say i have ever heard of that, is their anything i could read or see to confirm that?

Has it actually been proven that snakes have full feeling when torpid?
I remember reading something about this somewhere has anyone got a link?
Some stuff i read said freezing ecotherms is a cruel method of killing them, other ppl say its humane if the animals are cooled slowly first before being frozen. What are the facts relating to this issue and where can i read about it?
After all thats what this whole thing is about.
 
There r plenty of ppl perfomrning this operation on vens (based on hosers methods) r they all going to get a petition of their own too??
 
tyrone said:
There r plenty of ppl perfomrning this operation on vens (based on hosers methods) r they all going to get a petition of their own too??

que', who? Only other person i know of is a licensed vet. At least here in Australia and as far as I know they wont do it for private keepers.
 
tyrone said:
There r plenty of ppl perfomrning this operation on vens (based on hosers methods) r they all going to get a petition of their own too??

The point is he is doing it illegaly (he is not a licenced vet, nor has he gotten any type of approvel to do these operations)
 
I think what he's doing is outrageous! Nobody who isn't qualified should be doing surgery on any animal! I'd love to see someone do a similar surgery on HIM without proper sedation or pain relief.

BTW - to the person who posted about docking tails - tail docking was made illegal in NSW in 2004. Just so you know.
 
About bloody time......
It's a joke....a real herper can educate/handle an elapid without muting the animal.
I feel that if you support this pratice; your a clown; not a herp lover.
Whether they can survive with or without venom isnt the point.....
I hope they can stop this disgusting practice.
 
Hey all,
The petition is certainly worth signing as there are many issues surrounding inexperienced people performing this kind of surgery. It can only send a mixed message to the public, that although we (the reptile keeping community) promote and care about snakes we are willing to allow the mutilation of these animals to satisfy individual needs. It's just not on. :x . How many Monitor keepers would support ripping out a Lace Monitor's claws to prevent lacerations, or removing a Python's teeth so it cant cause injury when it bites.
It is insane to believe that surgery without anaesthesia doesn't cause pain and distress to the animal.
Furthermore, there are many references regarding the regeneration of venom producing tissue if the gland and duct is not completely removed. Just imagine what would happen if Ray hands one of his venomoid snakes to an unsuspecting member of the public, the person is bitten and is envenomated. Such an incident could result in the banning of reptile displays, closing off any hope of educating the public, not to mention potentially ruining the livelyhood of many displayers/demonstrators that rely on their business to survive.
This is not a witch-hunt on Ray. However, he is the one that has drawn all the attention to himself by publishing the accounts and photographs of these horrific events. What sort of a reaction did he really expect?
Let me just say that I don't understand or agree with the concept of venomoids as a whole. Rays justification of using these animals for educational purposes wears a bit thin. I have been in wildlife education for many years using venomous species without any problems. I dont believe there is ANY educational value in allowing a member of the public to hold a venomous (venomoid) snake that cant be satisfied with holding or touching a Python. I don't focus my education to the public on the fact that although these animals are venomous and they're not out to attack people. This point can be relayed in a single sentence :roll: . Real education is teaching people how these animals have evolved to survive in their given habitats, ecology etc.
Will signing the petition bring charges against Ray, maybe, maybe not. What it will do is voice the opinions of those of us who disagree with this cruelty and bring the issue to the attention of authorites.
Safe and responsible handling techniques come down to a sound knowledge of the species you are working with. If individuals are not willing to put in the work and gain the knowledge, they don't deserve the privilege to work with these beautiful and fascinating animals.
All the Best,
Chris.
 
I get to see a lot of petitions in my line of part time work. They rarely do any good. if we get 5,000 people to sign then we have, what, 0.1% of the population. The best way to get action is to deal with the politicians direct. It is just so easy for them to dismiss names on paper but humans sitting in front of them are much harder. I have signd the petition out of respect for what it is saying. But it wil go nowhere.

Anyone here a member of the Victorian opposition?
 
The best way to get action is to deal with the politicians direct. It is just so easy for them to dismiss names on paper but humans sitting in front of them are much harder.

Very good point Pete, that makes alot of sense.
 
Sad, but true Peter....
I do however agree with the direct approach;
maybe we could take out the glands of the supporters of this practice.... :evil:
 
[email protected]

John Thwaites above is the minister for environment in Victoria. David Davis is the shadow minister.

Although it is also possible that a person who operates on animals needs to be a registered vet. HOWEVER I do not know the regulations for such. Maybe you only need to be a registered vet in order to charge other people to work on their animals. I know that is the case for most other things. For example, you can write yoru own will but you can't charge other people unless you are a registered solicitor under the legal professionals acts of each state.
 
I am writing to point you towards a petition about the practices of a person in your state. The animal keeping community are up in arms as to how this man is treating his venomous snakes by operating on them to remove their venom glands. Please have a look.

http://www.aussiereptileclassifieds.com/phpPETITION/

If you can be of assistance here I would love to repay your generosity by way of a flying squad to work on election day at a key seat in Victoria.

extract from email sent to vic shadow minister for environment. Please note I said "animal" keeping, not just "reptile" keeping. Dont take offence to this guys but we don't carry much political weight.

And if this works we will need some volunteers come next vic state election day.
 
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