To cull or not to cull... that is the question...

[slim6y]

I did happen to start this thread and hijack another which is wrong. So let that all be a lesson yto you all.

It did start when Cris put me in his/her idiot book for having an opinion that Aussie like to cull things... Especially their own native wildlife.

I have lived here for on a year now and LOVE the country. But the attitude of some Aussies to their wildlife is atrocious borderline genocide in some cases.

In NZ we have a problem with an introduced pest.. Funny enough it's an Aussie... Possums! There are something like 80 million possums in NZ eating and deforesting our wonderful land. I am not exactly sure how they were introduced. But they are heavily hunted for sport in NZ and I don't say it's right. So before you start saying to me, look at your own (ex) country let's get this thread right.. I am talking about Australian natural wildlife!

Now I read in many areas how kangaroo populations have exploded. But what many of this editorials fail to tell you is how come these roo populations exploded. Here is the low down...

Farming our land sustainabley meant irrigation and fertilisation of the land. The land grew quickly. Along with the high growth of food for cattle, sheep and humans came an increased number of invertabrates and vertabrates now thriving in these new conditions.

In particular macrovertabrates such as roos.

These roos became so over populated and were contiunally increasing their poplation size that it was no longer sustainable to have roos and humans living side by side. One had to go. Was it going to be humans??? Nope... The choice by many governments was to cull the critters. Even the RSPCA had a say on how to do it humanely.

Relocation was never an option. Logistically impossible.

But this doesn't count for all roo species. Infact many roo species are on a heavy decline due to loss of usable habitats, deforestation, food sources destroyed, land use changes etc.

So my point is - should we actually cull our national species??? No where else in the world do these animals exist....

Next on the list.. bats... the glorious fruit bats...

We remove their homes plant up forests of exotic fruit species and then complain that the bats are over populating... do we cull them to?

Crocodiles start coming into cities becuase much of their land is used for farming and they are frowned upon when cattle get eaten... Do we shoot them?

Imagine if carpet pythons got to plague proportions... Do we kill them to satisfy our wants (not needs)?

I don't know what this thread is going to attract... but I am saying that culling is never a good option and there is always better options. Unfortunately humans are to stubbourn to move themselves.

So if you want to add your two cents worth don't target me... target the ideas... That way no one feels like they have been bitten... I am keen to hear the views of actuall wild life friendly aussies.. and most of you should fit into that category...

Thanks anyhow... I shoudl re-read this rant to see if it makes sense.. but blah... not gonna happen...

Will add more if the debate heats up...

 

[Tatelina]

In the words of Slipknot... People = s***
And its very true. We are too stubborn to move and too inconsiderate to consider our actions on a wider scale.
I do not agree with culling either....but somethings got to be done and like always, doesnt seem like humans will use their brains to do something better than the most commen things.

 

[Australis]

I dont think the grey roo is in any form of decline from culling, i have no problem with the culling of grey roos or any other roo species that reaches plague numbers.

 

[slim6y]

I just said something of significance in the other post even if I do say so myself...

"We do not change the way we live to suit our environment we change our environment to suit the way we live!"

I hate the fact that we get to the "but it's something that has to be done" attitude...

In Switzerland the rivers run through areas where they want to build, so they 'change' the river... in Swiss it's called something that losely translates to 'river correction'

In aussie culling is tantamount to "roo correction" eeeek...

I don't think it stops at roos either!

 

[junglejane]

I have no problem with the culling of animals if the animal is deemed a pest/plague. We have a bad kangaroo problem and last year had to cull a few, They were starting to get boistrous and attack people also alot were gettinghit by cars which is bad for both people and kangaroos. But i've seen the damage done if something isn't culled, its like carp, its illegal to put a carp back in the river once you catch it, sometimes it just has to be done!!
I actually want to write to local council about getting a cat cull done. We have a severe problem with feral cats and it drives me and my dogs insane. Do people realise pet cats are not allowed out at night??

 

[Nephrurus]

P.M me your address so i can send you some bandages to mop up the blood from your bleeding heart.

Eastern and western grey kangaroos never were at these densities prior to European settlement. As most of us know, the kangaroo is superbly adapted to the arid environment, geared for the population to explode when times are good, and then to just make it through the bad. Many of the yearling roos die (around 80+% for young at foots).

The removal of dingos from most areas (another predator of young roos) means less juvenile mortality. The addition of stock watering points throughout the semi arid rangelands means an even higher rate of survival.
These factors, plus a few more, mean roos reach unnaturally high densities, and the land, already suffering from sheep and cattle degradation, is further degraded.
Like you said, relocation is not an option, not from an economic point of view, but from and animal welfare perspective. Kangaroos are incredibly prone to stress and the resulting post capture myopathy. Kangaroos do not herd easily either... herding generally results in animals injuring themselves. Translocation of large numbers would be horrendouly costly (in terms of boths animals lives and $$$).

How bout herding them from affected land? Herding splits social groups of kangaroos, separating mothers and young at foot. It's also stressful for male roos as a social pecking order has already been established. Mothers with pouch young are also prone to kicking out their joeys when herded.

Humane management of kangaroo populations is cheap. It requires the use of several professional shooters. Anyone who has seen them at work will attest that less than 0.1% are not head shots, instant kills.

The "culling" is more of a harvest. The carcases are used for human and animal consumption and the skins used for a variety of purposes.
To date, no evidence shows that eastern and western greys have suffered from the regulated culling of their populations. It's not a new thing either, it's be happening for 20+ years. I have no idea of the resulting employment this industry generates in rural areas, but it would not be minor.


-H

 

[Kiwicam]

P.M me your address so i can send you some bandages to mop up the blood from your bleeding heart.
-H

Haha - 5 posts in and I guess the "Target the idea not the person" just flew out the window aye Paul

I say kill zem all, and ve vill rule ze planet as ze dominant virus..mwahahahaha!

 

[Dan123]

Lol

 

[cris]

Relocation isnt an option? i remember one wildlife warrior spent thousands of dollars to save an orphaned grey roo, they rasied it amongst ppl in their zoo and then released it back into the wild(where it would have no doubt died fairly quickly). They now have millions of dollars so they could save all the roos in Australia rasie them like pets and then release them to a cruel death woohooo!!!
Isnt it great to get that warm fuzzy feeling of thinking you are doing good just because you cant handle reality.

By law roos must be shot in the head with a gun about 4 times more powerful than what is really needed. This ensures a humane instant kill.
Most roo shooters also kill alot of feral animals like pigs(they get money for them) goats, foxes, cats etc.

As i mentioned before its our job to look after things now, luckily this is being done by rational ppl instead of bleeding hearts such as yourself who cant handle reality. We still have a long way to go but to stop harvesting/culling roos would be a really big mistake.

If you dont like it here where ppl shoot roos, go back to kiwi land and kill possums. Also it might be an idea to gets some sort of factual basis for your arguement apart from the typical ignorant bleeding heart BS.

My monitor is munching on a roo right now and i have to go now to feed some to my dog

 

[kel]

well you'll hate me slim6y my husband and i and our kids spend most weekends "culling" pests in our local area, weapon of choice being bow and arrows

we shoot mainly goats, deer and roos with the occasional pig thrown in
however most of what we kill gets eaten by us or our dogs

 

[Mayo]

When I was at Pucka Barracks they had just done a cull, you couldn't even tell that they had culled any. There was no food for them at the time and most were beginning to die from starvation. What would you prefer would you like to see them starve to death or would a bullet look better. Sometimes ****** just has to be done and those who no the least about whats going on are the loudest voices you hear.

 

[Davo66]

The roos at Pucka have been out of control for years, they are some of the biggest grey roos I have ever seen in my life!
Davo

 

[jessop]

Imagine if carpet pythons got to plague proportions...

Now wouldn't that be cool I can see the headlines now "Hoard of angry snakes take over Australia as herpers run amok"

 

[xander]

I love marsupials and have handreared some, but what I think is that sheep,cows,pigs have destroyed the land by their hard hooves compacting soil creating desertation.Roos however are designed to live and cope with the harsh aussie environment.It would be more sustainable both environmentally and economical if Aussies ate roos(Est greys and reds)and didnt eat cattle,etc.Kangaroos also are basically baby machines,they can have a joey at foot,one in the pouch and another on the way.So I dont think they could possibly become endangered.(Im only referring to Kangaroos,not wallabies)Also no trees need to be cleared for roos as oppossed to greenhouse emmiting cattle.

 

[OdessaStud]

Im sorry but most people who live in suburbia do love roos and all the furry little creatures that the bush has but in the real world they can be a pest and have to be contolled to some degree.Bow and arrow I dont know so much too many near misses or near hits for my likeing but humane culling is a must.I invite anyone to come out my way Im on the cusp of the great dividing range and tell me we should stop culling.Cattle ,sheep,goats, and pigs can all be a menace but they can also be controlled by fencing,try keeping a roo confined it cant be done unless you want 15 foot cyclone fences JMO but having been a farmer and a land owner for over 25 years there is a place for everything and also a limit to what can have a place.
Odie

 

[wokka]

Once we humans change the environment we need to take responsibility for the domino effect those changes cause. On one hand reliable water supply is good but by removing the natural control of drought many different animals over breed to drown out the environment. Its a copout to say we must not cull. We caused the problem so we own the problem. Likewise for cats ,possums, salt ,erosion.

 

[Retic]

I also hate the idea of shooting the very animal we portray as our national symbol, of course I wasn't born here so I am apparently not allowed to have this view. Maybe I should go 'home' because the thought of killing millions of kangaroos doesn't appeal to me ?
WE create the problem and then have to solve it but shooting huge numbers of animals that are supposed to be here to make more room for animals that aren't.
We are in the middle of the worst drought Europeans have probably ever seen and has it changed the way we do things ? Absolutely not. We will continue to bulldoze every tree in sight and introduce hard hooved animals to destroy whatever is left. Does it make sense ? Of course not but there's money in it.
I also hate the word 'pest' being used to describe a native anaimal.

 

[slim6y]

Many of your posts talk about culling introduced species... To me that makes sense. But recall this... We are (humans) an introduced species to Australia and we are also to blame for the population explosion of many of these animals.

Now take the humble possum. Not in huge numbers in this fine land, some would say struggling in parts. Yet 80 million of them live in NZ. They're considered a pest. So they are hunted... not culled.

Pigs, goats, cats etc are hunted because of their pest status.

Kangaroos are culled because they're a native species and we still want them alive.

For the most, i would suggest people here would be against slaughter of snakes... Which is exactly how this thread originally started... And as one has so put it... it would be cool to hav e a plague of carpet pythons... Many of you would be up in arms if the councils started to cull of carpet pythons (not all of you - some are just plain heartless).

And thanks kiwi - some people still have to attack the person not the idea... No bandages could fix this bleeding heart... I need a cement mixer

I still sit back and think "We change our environment to suit our lifestyles not change our lifestyles to suit our environment" is by far perfectly portrayed in Australia.

A pure prime example is the illegal and ill planned release of cane toads. Which in their native country flourish, but not to the extent they do here.

This is of course a pest. Destroying areas where our native animals live, killing snakes and birds etc... this is a pure example of changing our environment...

Land use - irrigation, cropping, agriculture etc... More change of the environment...

All i am saying is... We are the ones that need to change... Not the kangaroos.

I heard a report that Australia is encouraging a doubling plus some of its population... that will take the population count to over 50 million. That certainly puts humans in the 'non-endangered' category.

This country is plenty big enough for everyone, but not 50+ mill! Another changing the environment to suit the lifestlyes of aussies...

See my point is clear - we are to blame so we have the power to fix it... But how? And I say culling is not the answer!

Attack the idea for discussion, not me because i am purely taking an opinion and offering others respite... I don't hate anyone who culls/kills/hunts... that's their perogative... But i would like them to think of the reasons they're doing it and if they're doing it for the right ones...

Instantly I hear people saying roo pests etc... Just remember, it's because of humans they got to this proportion!

 

[cheazy]

well we screwed the environment and so we gotta fix it, and i dont no any other ways of getting rid of thousands of roos at a time??? ... suggestions??? besides its mainly done by professionals who know what theyre doing.

 

[Magpie]

Many of your posts talk about culling introduced species... To me that makes sense. But recall this... We are (humans) an introduced species to Australia and we are also to blame for the population explosion of many of these animals.

I have a real problem with the fact that this view is so widely held. An eastern grey kangaroo found 200km from where eatern greys lived prior to european settlement is just as feral as a cat, goat or dog.
Just because something is native to Australia does not mean it is native to the area.