Mayo
Very Well-Known Member
Lilith you might not eat meat but doesn't mean meat eaters like gilly won't taste test you
To cull or not to cull... that is the question...
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lilith
Active Member
Very very well said Richard, believe me you speak for a great many people who find the 'limited' cull of millions of kangaroos deplorable. I watch these stories doing the rounds of farms where they have bulldozed every tree, filled it full of hard hooved animals and then want bailing out when every bit of topsoil blows away and they need an acre of land to feen one cow. The they want to be bailed out when there is the inevitable drought.
I find it even more amazing that farmers actually grow rice in this country, we have the worst drought for 100 years and they are growing the most water hungry crop in the world.
I find it even more amazing that farmers actually grow rice in this country, we have the worst drought for 100 years and they are growing the most water hungry crop in the world.
The ppl against culling roos always seem to drift of the subject of the real situation and just complain about bad farming practices. This thread isnt about bad farming practice its about culling/harvesting roos. Farming of any kind will lead to an increase in roo numbers as it will provide food and water for the roos.
Although overgrazing can contibute alot to the effect roos have, causing them to swarm on places that arnt overgrazed and often destroying them. If you have ever seen a thousand or so roos in a small paddock you would know what im talking about.
Apart from the emotional issue some have with killing native animals it is actually very benificial to be harvesting roos. As pointed out by many hard hoofed animals cause far more damage so harvesting roos gives us a excellent source of environmentally friendly meat.
Boa did it occur to you that there are some areas where it does rain and there is plenty of water to grow rice or do you think they grow it in the desert.
If you want to winge about farmers winge about cotton farmers then i can whinge with you
Im going to feed my monitors more roo meat now
Although overgrazing can contibute alot to the effect roos have, causing them to swarm on places that arnt overgrazed and often destroying them. If you have ever seen a thousand or so roos in a small paddock you would know what im talking about.
Apart from the emotional issue some have with killing native animals it is actually very benificial to be harvesting roos. As pointed out by many hard hoofed animals cause far more damage so harvesting roos gives us a excellent source of environmentally friendly meat.
Boa did it occur to you that there are some areas where it does rain and there is plenty of water to grow rice or do you think they grow it in the desert.
If you want to winge about farmers winge about cotton farmers then i can whinge with you
Im going to feed my monitors more roo meat now
richardwells
Not so new Member
Save the Roo !
"Richard Wells you did nothing but blow hot air, Give me a viable alternative, or a practical solution and I'll listen but you said absolutely nothing. Do you live in the city and work out of a little cubicle? Just a though because you don't seem to understand the problem at all."
Well, here's some more hot air for you.
No I don't work in a little cubicle in some city office. I have a farm in rural New South Wales, where over the years I have had to endure the endless, illegal and totally unjustified slaughter of roos on our three properties by trespassing, gun-toting hooligans who call themselves recreational shooters. In the process, I have witnessed them killing everything from wedge-tail eagles to lace monitors, and have even had my life and my family's life threatened when I dared to stop their carnage. I don't understand the problem eh? Well, unfortunately I do understand it all too well.
I also know that there would be some who practice their killing with a degree of crude professionalism, and I am sure that such people would find it equally hard to tolerate the rogue element in their activity. But, quite frankly, if you hang around poo you really can't complain if others think you stink. Make no mistake about it...a humane and caring bullet is still a bullet. To my mind, there is just no room for such unwarranted slaughter as is currently practiced, no matter how well-groomed the shooter.
The myth that kangaroo culling is all clean-kill and sanitized just doesn't wash with me either, because I have seen the bad side and it is really bad. In one particular occasion, my neighbour was witness to an appalling incident where several Red-neck Wallabies and Swamp Wallabies were shot in the legs so that they couldn't escape, then they were dragged up to a barbed wire fence, then strung up while still alive, then shot in firing-squad fashion by a party of "recreational" shooters. When he protested the shooters erected a large target in the line of fire with his house ! I was there when the police arrived, I saw the shooter's handy work, and I know for a fact that nothing was done because there was no video evidence to support a prosecution...and as another neighbour remarked, "they were only roos anyway".
I have also seen first hand the work of the some of the supposed expert marksman who are licensed kangaroo shooters over the years, and the 99% head shot is the real BS. During such culls for roo meat orders, the speed of the "hunters" is phenomenal, with the slaughter occurring so fast that on occasions legs may be cut from the animal as it lay still dying on the ground, the spurting blood from the cut arteries proof that their heart was still beating when the knife went in.
As for practical solutions...farmers should stop using wildlife as an excuse for the destruction of fences that, for the most part, have long ago passed their use-by dates. They should start to invest in properly fencing their lands, and should they lose some crops to the roos... the Government should compensate them for the alleged losses instead of taking the cheap way out of encouraging the killing-off of the "problem". Most of the old fence-damage excuse as justification for culling is also grossly over-used and abused in my opinion. I have had kilometres of new fences placed around our properties without any significant damage from roos of any size. We are located between two sections of a National Park and all the wallabies and roos that live within these reserves regularly cross our lands without any trouble at all. They have no trouble jumping over most fences once they get used to their presence in the landscape. The only time there has been any damage is when idiots start their shooting sprees and panic them into crashing into some fences as they try to escape being killed.
Over the last ten years I have personally witnessed a massive decline in all of the four species in our area, and when the droughts are raging, our roos are always heavily hit by shooters. And which ones are they "culling"? Those very ones that manage to survive the droughts - the genetically most fit for surviving the hard times are the ones most rapidly reduced to a rotting carcass in our paddocks...And I have absolutely no doubt that its happening throughout the whole country as well.
So sure, it may seem like I am taking a high moral ground here, but why not, when there is almost no one there anyway? I have no trouble at all in taking a shot at an "industry" and a "recreation" that is little more than a brutal theft of our Nation's heritage.
I repeat...all Kangaroos and Wallabies should be totally protected from commercial and recreational hunting as a matter of extreme urgency...otherwise this generation will likely be witness to the rapid extinction of the last of Australia's megafauna.
It is my firm belief that the Governments of Australia should stop their pathetic inaction on this issue and immediately list ALL species of kangaroos and wallabies on their respective Threatened Species Conservation Acts or equivalents.
And, by the way it is I who must be convinced that they should remain unprotected...and you will have a very tough time convincing me that the blood and guts of a roo will outweigh one racing through the scrub...alive in all its glory, its every move reflecting the spirit of the country in which it lives....
Richard Wells
"Richard Wells you did nothing but blow hot air, Give me a viable alternative, or a practical solution and I'll listen but you said absolutely nothing. Do you live in the city and work out of a little cubicle? Just a though because you don't seem to understand the problem at all."
Well, here's some more hot air for you.
No I don't work in a little cubicle in some city office. I have a farm in rural New South Wales, where over the years I have had to endure the endless, illegal and totally unjustified slaughter of roos on our three properties by trespassing, gun-toting hooligans who call themselves recreational shooters. In the process, I have witnessed them killing everything from wedge-tail eagles to lace monitors, and have even had my life and my family's life threatened when I dared to stop their carnage. I don't understand the problem eh? Well, unfortunately I do understand it all too well.
I also know that there would be some who practice their killing with a degree of crude professionalism, and I am sure that such people would find it equally hard to tolerate the rogue element in their activity. But, quite frankly, if you hang around poo you really can't complain if others think you stink. Make no mistake about it...a humane and caring bullet is still a bullet. To my mind, there is just no room for such unwarranted slaughter as is currently practiced, no matter how well-groomed the shooter.
The myth that kangaroo culling is all clean-kill and sanitized just doesn't wash with me either, because I have seen the bad side and it is really bad. In one particular occasion, my neighbour was witness to an appalling incident where several Red-neck Wallabies and Swamp Wallabies were shot in the legs so that they couldn't escape, then they were dragged up to a barbed wire fence, then strung up while still alive, then shot in firing-squad fashion by a party of "recreational" shooters. When he protested the shooters erected a large target in the line of fire with his house ! I was there when the police arrived, I saw the shooter's handy work, and I know for a fact that nothing was done because there was no video evidence to support a prosecution...and as another neighbour remarked, "they were only roos anyway".
I have also seen first hand the work of the some of the supposed expert marksman who are licensed kangaroo shooters over the years, and the 99% head shot is the real BS. During such culls for roo meat orders, the speed of the "hunters" is phenomenal, with the slaughter occurring so fast that on occasions legs may be cut from the animal as it lay still dying on the ground, the spurting blood from the cut arteries proof that their heart was still beating when the knife went in.
As for practical solutions...farmers should stop using wildlife as an excuse for the destruction of fences that, for the most part, have long ago passed their use-by dates. They should start to invest in properly fencing their lands, and should they lose some crops to the roos... the Government should compensate them for the alleged losses instead of taking the cheap way out of encouraging the killing-off of the "problem". Most of the old fence-damage excuse as justification for culling is also grossly over-used and abused in my opinion. I have had kilometres of new fences placed around our properties without any significant damage from roos of any size. We are located between two sections of a National Park and all the wallabies and roos that live within these reserves regularly cross our lands without any trouble at all. They have no trouble jumping over most fences once they get used to their presence in the landscape. The only time there has been any damage is when idiots start their shooting sprees and panic them into crashing into some fences as they try to escape being killed.
Over the last ten years I have personally witnessed a massive decline in all of the four species in our area, and when the droughts are raging, our roos are always heavily hit by shooters. And which ones are they "culling"? Those very ones that manage to survive the droughts - the genetically most fit for surviving the hard times are the ones most rapidly reduced to a rotting carcass in our paddocks...And I have absolutely no doubt that its happening throughout the whole country as well.
So sure, it may seem like I am taking a high moral ground here, but why not, when there is almost no one there anyway? I have no trouble at all in taking a shot at an "industry" and a "recreation" that is little more than a brutal theft of our Nation's heritage.
I repeat...all Kangaroos and Wallabies should be totally protected from commercial and recreational hunting as a matter of extreme urgency...otherwise this generation will likely be witness to the rapid extinction of the last of Australia's megafauna.
It is my firm belief that the Governments of Australia should stop their pathetic inaction on this issue and immediately list ALL species of kangaroos and wallabies on their respective Threatened Species Conservation Acts or equivalents.
And, by the way it is I who must be convinced that they should remain unprotected...and you will have a very tough time convincing me that the blood and guts of a roo will outweigh one racing through the scrub...alive in all its glory, its every move reflecting the spirit of the country in which it lives....
Richard Wells
Just as i thought no facts or realistic solutions... Still you bring up some very emotional stories that have nothing to do with legal activity.
Recreational shooters are not allowed to kill any native animals except for fish and invertebrates, but you are right there should be a complete ban on the illegal shooting of our native wildlife :lol:
As for your stories about recreational shooters, To the general public they are a protected speices. Not to mention the breaches of the cruelty laws, if you care as much as you make out you do and witnessed these things why dont you get these ppl charged for their crimes?
I also like the way you have generalised recreational shooters as irresposible lunatics that will shoot at anything, just because you have seen a few complete _____ _____.
If you have really stood by and watched someone butchering a roo while its still alive i would suggest that you to are just as cruel for standing there and watching and letting it happen.
On your farm that would obviosly have this magical roo proof fencing that you talk about, why dont you let some in so that your place can become a sort of reserve where these so called endangered wallabies and roos can thrive? Surely the survival of the species is more important to you than farming.
I think roos are great animals and i like seeing them bouncing around, i have never and probably never will kill a roo, i have only ever shot them with a camera. However i fully support a sustainable harvest of this valueable resource. The only real issue in my mind is making sure it stays sustainable and i think that it is at the moment and to my knowledge the numbers to be legally culled are regularly changed.
Recreational shooters are not allowed to kill any native animals except for fish and invertebrates, but you are right there should be a complete ban on the illegal shooting of our native wildlife :lol:
As for your stories about recreational shooters, To the general public they are a protected speices. Not to mention the breaches of the cruelty laws, if you care as much as you make out you do and witnessed these things why dont you get these ppl charged for their crimes?
I also like the way you have generalised recreational shooters as irresposible lunatics that will shoot at anything, just because you have seen a few complete _____ _____.
If you have really stood by and watched someone butchering a roo while its still alive i would suggest that you to are just as cruel for standing there and watching and letting it happen.
On your farm that would obviosly have this magical roo proof fencing that you talk about, why dont you let some in so that your place can become a sort of reserve where these so called endangered wallabies and roos can thrive? Surely the survival of the species is more important to you than farming.
I think roos are great animals and i like seeing them bouncing around, i have never and probably never will kill a roo, i have only ever shot them with a camera. However i fully support a sustainable harvest of this valueable resource. The only real issue in my mind is making sure it stays sustainable and i think that it is at the moment and to my knowledge the numbers to be legally culled are regularly changed.
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JandC_Reptiles
Very Well-Known Member
I hate roo's.
So I will leave my opinion out of it lol
So I will leave my opinion out of it lol
slim6y
Almost Legendary
haha... thanks JandC.
here's a timely reminder for people to attack the IDEA not the people writing them. It's uncalled for to trash one's opinions, even if they are totally wrong
Secondly... Magpie.. ahhh magpie... Your respite to the Feral argument didn't pay off sorry... You mentioned the Eastern Grey was located 200km from it's pack (correct collective noun???) BEFORE human intervention. So your word feral does still not apply in my opinion.
Also the thin line between feral and importing useful creatures (ie sheep, cattle etc) is one that has possibly been discussed on many occassions... But as per usual because humans put them there for our use, they're therefore not feral to start with... cats became feral when their owners (I guess) let their cats go wild...
Dingos are not native to Aussie, but have been here a darn site longer than europeans!
But they're not feral... very hard to understand that... Or are they???
This is a great thread with many opinions... but I still hear very typical opinions coming from what appear to be people who really don't give a rats behind about their native wildlife.
But again, the blinkers seem to be on and tunnel vision guaranteed... Sweep it under the mat... kill em all... It's our fault anyway!
I can understand why to kill introduced species... but a native... i just don't get it... even with wonderful comments and some seeming so informed... I still can't see why a native animal has got to such ridiculous proportions that they're starving and needing to be shot... It's an absolute tragedy that could have and should have been avoided in the first place... I don't say I have the answer, but I do say we're in the wrong as humans!
Keep the comments coming - it's a good debate... But please keep it targeted at the questions and not the people. that is much appreciated!
here's a timely reminder for people to attack the IDEA not the people writing them. It's uncalled for to trash one's opinions, even if they are totally wrong
Secondly... Magpie.. ahhh magpie... Your respite to the Feral argument didn't pay off sorry... You mentioned the Eastern Grey was located 200km from it's pack (correct collective noun???) BEFORE human intervention. So your word feral does still not apply in my opinion.
Also the thin line between feral and importing useful creatures (ie sheep, cattle etc) is one that has possibly been discussed on many occassions... But as per usual because humans put them there for our use, they're therefore not feral to start with... cats became feral when their owners (I guess) let their cats go wild...
Dingos are not native to Aussie, but have been here a darn site longer than europeans!
But they're not feral... very hard to understand that... Or are they???
This is a great thread with many opinions... but I still hear very typical opinions coming from what appear to be people who really don't give a rats behind about their native wildlife.
But again, the blinkers seem to be on and tunnel vision guaranteed... Sweep it under the mat... kill em all... It's our fault anyway!
I can understand why to kill introduced species... but a native... i just don't get it... even with wonderful comments and some seeming so informed... I still can't see why a native animal has got to such ridiculous proportions that they're starving and needing to be shot... It's an absolute tragedy that could have and should have been avoided in the first place... I don't say I have the answer, but I do say we're in the wrong as humans!
Keep the comments coming - it's a good debate... But please keep it targeted at the questions and not the people. that is much appreciated!
D
dynea
Guest
I was attecked by a kangaroo when i was just 14. I hate them, there mongrel animals.
I did a WIRES co**** but decided that i didn't want to waist $600 of my own money per wallaby when you have to have 3 at a time. Then if you humanize it they want you to knock it on the head anyway. And if you don't humanize it and it gets released they will jump on someones land and get shot, LOL. It's a no win situation.
I have lived in rural australia my whole life, and i think that it depends on the area, but they can be major pests, and do need shooting. The same go's for fruit bats and flying fox's.
I did a WIRES co**** but decided that i didn't want to waist $600 of my own money per wallaby when you have to have 3 at a time. Then if you humanize it they want you to knock it on the head anyway. And if you don't humanize it and it gets released they will jump on someones land and get shot, LOL. It's a no win situation.
I have lived in rural australia my whole life, and i think that it depends on the area, but they can be major pests, and do need shooting. The same go's for fruit bats and flying fox's.
slim6y
Almost Legendary
Wow... you have strong opinions. To me they're disapointing - what you appear to be stating is you have more right to farm the land than the native animals have to live on it. Bats are an ABSOLUTE essential for the existence of our rain forests. They are not on;y the most beautiful creature to look at, but ironically the closest relatives to humans we have naturally in Australia. They are also incorrectly named bats, as the micro bat (such as bent wing bats) are in fact bats. Fruit bats, including flying foxes are closer to lemurs and are therefore more like monkeys and contain some 95% of our own DNA.
I really can't believe that a wildlife licenced holder has these strong opinions. I'm not at you I promise, but these opinions are disastorous to our own wildlife and to the existence of Australia's highly limited forests and grasslands.
One can not survive without the other, therefore Australians require them!
I am amazed (I feel like repeating myself) that people have these opinions.
What other animals do you dislike?
I can understand your fear of roos, but absolutely under no circumstance a hatred that you'd kill them!
The no win situation is again typical of the anti-wildlife stance that appears throughout this thread. It all starts with US! We have to make it work! No one should shoot or kill any native animal - especially bats... they're on;y a pest because we chopped down their forests to build our own fruit forests. They were never a pest until they lost their food sources!
Well.. I'm disgusted this sort of attitude exists. but at the same I am very accepting of it as it really seems to obey my original theory.. Some australians have such a dislike for their own native animals that they would kill them rather than be educated about them.
Shame shame shame!
Please be educated and then understand what it is you're killing/disliking before you make judgements...
Im sad :-(
But life will go on.. and even if I don't change anyone's mind, even farmer type people.. i have at least said my bit and who ever you are reading this, you read it... maybe even understood it... you didn't need to agree... but at least understand...
Bats are friends not food
richardwells
Not so new Member
Save the Roo !
"...if you care as much as you make out you do and witnessed these things why dont you get these ppl charged for their crimes?"
Prosecutions ! You really don't seem to know much about the bush fella. I mean to say, you can't even have someone prosecuted for bloody trespassing on your land unless they admit to it...and guess what? I have long ago given up on any chance of having people prosecuted for roos because our complaints over the years have been ignored time and time again. Roos are just held in total contempt by whole slabs of Australian Society, in particular rural areas like ours. We have on occasions phoned the police, the RSPCA and even the NPWS to stop these roo-killing parasites, and even provided their license plates and our complaints have received the same old response - not enough evidence to ensure a successful prosecution! It's really just regarded as a waste of valuable police time. And, of course this is pretty much the case, so I can understand the reticence of the authorities to get involved with matters that put the burden of proof so heavily upon the victim that it's usually just not worth all the hassle or even possible to get a case over the line. When confronted, they just trot out the old Bart Simpson defense..."Ï didn't do it, No one saw me do it, and You can't prove anything"...and everyone just sits back and buys it hook, line and cartridge-case.
We had a car load of police arrive at the scene of the previously mentioned rooicide and we were told that they would investigate the offending party. Nothing much happened of course...except that we were later advised that under no circumstances should we approach them again as they were the subject of a separate murder investigation and were regarded as extremely dangerous! Well...what a surprise. I mean to say, although we even heard what sounded like machine gun fire, I guess we could have been forgiven for thinking that a crack unit of the Country Women's Association Cooking Squad might have been responsible...
"If you have really stood by and watched someone butchering a roo while its still alive i would suggest that you to are just as cruel for standing there and watching and letting it happen."
Maybe so...but as a previously open minded bystander trying to learn the facts about whether these killers know what they are doing, all I can say is, we are not talking about people who care all that much about what an observor like me thinks. They are in effect in total charge and do what they like. My protests were just written off as the ravings of a stupid greeny. What some of these "professional" roo cullers get up to has been the subject of Parliamentary inquiries and investigations in the past, so it is no big secret...it is all on the public record for anyone who cares to look. Make no mistake about it, this is a very rough industry, that has been for a long time implicated in serious criminal activity including even murders of competitors. It is peopled largely by individuals who often have criminal backgrounds, and who in some instances would make the dregs of society look like angels as they swagger across the landscape on their merry killing spree. To "professionalize" the roo industry has been a passionate desire of Government after Government, and it is not surprising that it resists controls at every turn. I sincerely believe that it would be in everyone's interest to send them back to the killing chambers in local abattoirs where they would feel right at home amongst the blood and guts. They would still have a job doing what they like best...and our roos would only have to deal with the countless thousands of gun-weilding, pesticide-damaged farmers.
"On your farm that would obviously have this magical roo proof fencing that you talk about, why don't you let some in so that your place can become a sort of reserve where these so called endangered wallabies and roos can thrive? Surely the survival of the species is more important to you than farming."
My friend, how right you are !! I ALREADY let them in, and have done so for many years. They have the full unrestricted use of our land. They are welcome to eat what they like, where and when they like, in a place where they are protected from the viciousness of others. It is a deep honour to be in their trusting presence.
Is it really all that hard to show compassion to the roo...in light of how poorly they are treated in this country?
Richard Wells
"...if you care as much as you make out you do and witnessed these things why dont you get these ppl charged for their crimes?"
Prosecutions ! You really don't seem to know much about the bush fella. I mean to say, you can't even have someone prosecuted for bloody trespassing on your land unless they admit to it...and guess what? I have long ago given up on any chance of having people prosecuted for roos because our complaints over the years have been ignored time and time again. Roos are just held in total contempt by whole slabs of Australian Society, in particular rural areas like ours. We have on occasions phoned the police, the RSPCA and even the NPWS to stop these roo-killing parasites, and even provided their license plates and our complaints have received the same old response - not enough evidence to ensure a successful prosecution! It's really just regarded as a waste of valuable police time. And, of course this is pretty much the case, so I can understand the reticence of the authorities to get involved with matters that put the burden of proof so heavily upon the victim that it's usually just not worth all the hassle or even possible to get a case over the line. When confronted, they just trot out the old Bart Simpson defense..."Ï didn't do it, No one saw me do it, and You can't prove anything"...and everyone just sits back and buys it hook, line and cartridge-case.
We had a car load of police arrive at the scene of the previously mentioned rooicide and we were told that they would investigate the offending party. Nothing much happened of course...except that we were later advised that under no circumstances should we approach them again as they were the subject of a separate murder investigation and were regarded as extremely dangerous! Well...what a surprise. I mean to say, although we even heard what sounded like machine gun fire, I guess we could have been forgiven for thinking that a crack unit of the Country Women's Association Cooking Squad might have been responsible...
"If you have really stood by and watched someone butchering a roo while its still alive i would suggest that you to are just as cruel for standing there and watching and letting it happen."
Maybe so...but as a previously open minded bystander trying to learn the facts about whether these killers know what they are doing, all I can say is, we are not talking about people who care all that much about what an observor like me thinks. They are in effect in total charge and do what they like. My protests were just written off as the ravings of a stupid greeny. What some of these "professional" roo cullers get up to has been the subject of Parliamentary inquiries and investigations in the past, so it is no big secret...it is all on the public record for anyone who cares to look. Make no mistake about it, this is a very rough industry, that has been for a long time implicated in serious criminal activity including even murders of competitors. It is peopled largely by individuals who often have criminal backgrounds, and who in some instances would make the dregs of society look like angels as they swagger across the landscape on their merry killing spree. To "professionalize" the roo industry has been a passionate desire of Government after Government, and it is not surprising that it resists controls at every turn. I sincerely believe that it would be in everyone's interest to send them back to the killing chambers in local abattoirs where they would feel right at home amongst the blood and guts. They would still have a job doing what they like best...and our roos would only have to deal with the countless thousands of gun-weilding, pesticide-damaged farmers.
"On your farm that would obviously have this magical roo proof fencing that you talk about, why don't you let some in so that your place can become a sort of reserve where these so called endangered wallabies and roos can thrive? Surely the survival of the species is more important to you than farming."
My friend, how right you are !! I ALREADY let them in, and have done so for many years. They have the full unrestricted use of our land. They are welcome to eat what they like, where and when they like, in a place where they are protected from the viciousness of others. It is a deep honour to be in their trusting presence.
Is it really all that hard to show compassion to the roo...in light of how poorly they are treated in this country?
Richard Wells
So what do you want to happen? do you want ppl to stop farming, stop shooting roos and start killing ppl instead?
Why are we wrong as humans? we have as much right as any creature to live on the planet.
The reason you cant see why they need to be shot is because you have obviously never seen how many there can be at times in some places. You say it could have been avoided, how could it be avoided in a realistic way? If you dont have an answer how can you say stuff like this?
Roos are currently not a major problem in Australia, the reason for this is because there numbers are controlled fairly well IMO. If there were any real signs of them being threatened then the numbers allowed to be culled would be reduced.
Since it seems to have become part of the topic i will say that there is alot of room for improvement in farming practices here and there are alot of farmers who realise this and are interested in working towards a better future.
It is very important for us to try and maintain stability and coexist with our wildlife whether you want to accept it or not, this invloves killing things.
OdessaStud
Very Well-Known Member
For every roo shot there are 2 more to take its place.They are eating themselves out of the bush as did the koalas at phillip island in vic.Get a grip on reality before you preach your Save The Roos crusade they cull brumbies in the top of aus why ? because they become a problem in plague proportions,our eco system cannot afford to support all these animals without some intervention.This is a world dominated by humans is it not? without our crops and our grass and our protective legislation you would find alot more of our Natives would be gone.Farming this country of ours started long before white man ever stepped foot on the place,have a look in the history books and see how many animals used to be native to australia,we have stopped so much destruction and yet caused so much but life is life and the way is now no 500 years ago (i wish).YOure doing your bit for the roos but to mock others for their thoughts is something you have no right to do.JMO
Odie
Odie
I do have compassion for roos, I only support the legal control of roos that invloves them being killed instantly by a headshot I have no problem with this at all. Although if someone kills a roo illegally for dog food or something that doesnt bother me much either.
If i thought that roo populations where in real trouble i would also be strongly opposed to killing them.
I have a strong objection to ppl being cruel to any animal this obviously includes roos.
I dont really like how it appeared(to me anyway) that you related those ppl connected to murder charges etc. to recreational shooters. Most recreational shooters target feral species and you cant hold a gun licence if you are crazy or have a criminal record(this does include roo shooters), nor are you allowed to have machine guns.
I do realise that no one is likely to be prosectuted for killing roos in the bush, but the cruelty you talk about is a bit differant to simply killing something, i guess even then your right
looking back that was a dumb comment on my behalf.
slim6y
Almost Legendary
Hey thanks for the input... TO be honest roos weren't my only major concern. They were part and parcel of the aussie native fauna and flora that is constantly being targeted in some way or respect. Such as the bats.
I love some of the new farming practices that encourage wildlife to blossom and be non-inhibitive to us as humans...
I never once stated there was a realistic answer to these problems, and I KNOW all about the starving roos. It's very sad. Honestly, it's horrible what they go through.
I wished it never happens. We can turn a blind eye on it.
But even here in Cairns, at Trinity park, where i have photographed in excess of 100 roos... Soon, their land will be turned into complexes and duplexes and appartments and housing... Where will the 100s of roos go? Die of starvation? be shot... Be relocated (in this thread this is noted as a very bad alternative and less humane than shooting them... which I find hard to believe but can accept moving is traumatic).
There is no realistic answer... Better farming, better education, better laws... ??? I'm at an end to know what to do... this is why I set up this thread. Surely there's an alternative. Surely people must know better ways...
I need to take a lot of time to read these comments over and over again. Some are deeply interesting. Others seem to skim the surface and maybe go a little over board in othe rdirections. But all seem to have valid arguments for and against.
richardwells
Not so new Member
Yes, Kill Ferals AND Save Natives
No not dumb at all...this can be a very emotional issue, where every opinion has legs...and who knows where one particular view may lead over another.
Anyway, it might come as a bit of a surprise to know that I am someone who was once widely involved in feral animal control by firearms, and I am in total agreement with the need to ELIMINATE all ferals. I know the power of the gun and how in the wrong hands it can easily be far more trouble than it is worth. Obviously, only the sane and reasonable should be the only ones permitted to own firearms, but from my observations a lot of people have guns who are either unlicensed or criminally insane (or both).
I should also express my understanding of how even the most experienced can make near fatal mistakes when it comes to the use of firearms. I mean, the constant use of them can engender a rather casual almost carefree attitude at times that can be very dangerous indeed. As a point of reference, I would recount a past survey that I was on for the NPWS in NSW. I had been contracted to collect representative samples of various vertebrates for a scientific study on the effects of pesticides on wildlife by the Depts of Agriculture, Fisheries and the National Parks and Wildlife Service. As a professional field biologist I was charged with the task of collecting 10 of each species of a range of targeted species across a vast area of the State. Each was euthenased humanely following capture by injection of Sodium Pentabarbitone, a very distasteful job, but nevertheless, a critically important one for the long-term survival of not only the fauna but also the people inhabiting the study region. When it came to the roos, I just drove the roads and picked up the road-kills. On the other hand, one of the NPWS workers decided that fresh kills were better (even though this was not really necessary) and convinced the head of the team to bring his rifle along so that he could show us the easy way to collect roos. Upon arrival at the study site on a prominant cotton farm he immediately departed and started off hunting the roos by shooting the Farm Kookaburra, a Swamp Harrier (which he had to finish-off by choking it to death), a black duck, and three roos - none of which were clean kills. Upon his return to the vehicle, he climbed into the back of the land-cruiser were I was already sitting, and his firearm discharged, sending a 222 bullet flying past my head and blowing out the window beside me!
Now, even though I was a very experienced firearm user myself, he was the "professional" and of course you couldn't tell him anything at all. I was so experienced with guns that I wouldn't risk using them in the presence of a field party, because there are just too many people to keep an eye on, as well as look for wildlife. But I know people make mistakes so easily with guns despite their experience. Sometimes you just get over-whelmed with the whole shooting experience and raw instincts can take over. Something similar even once happened to me...and it was really surprising how I reacted to an otherwise innocent event. At the time my wife and I were walking up the driveway to check the mail, when all of a sudden, I heard the unmistakeable swish of an incoming .308, whereupon I instantly slammed her onto the ground and threw myself over her to avoid the hit...but when I looked around it was only an attacking magpie swooping us !......I didn't bother telling my wife what had made me do it...and to this day she still thinks I'm a just frisky devil at heart....
Richard Wells
No not dumb at all...this can be a very emotional issue, where every opinion has legs...and who knows where one particular view may lead over another.
Anyway, it might come as a bit of a surprise to know that I am someone who was once widely involved in feral animal control by firearms, and I am in total agreement with the need to ELIMINATE all ferals. I know the power of the gun and how in the wrong hands it can easily be far more trouble than it is worth. Obviously, only the sane and reasonable should be the only ones permitted to own firearms, but from my observations a lot of people have guns who are either unlicensed or criminally insane (or both).
I should also express my understanding of how even the most experienced can make near fatal mistakes when it comes to the use of firearms. I mean, the constant use of them can engender a rather casual almost carefree attitude at times that can be very dangerous indeed. As a point of reference, I would recount a past survey that I was on for the NPWS in NSW. I had been contracted to collect representative samples of various vertebrates for a scientific study on the effects of pesticides on wildlife by the Depts of Agriculture, Fisheries and the National Parks and Wildlife Service. As a professional field biologist I was charged with the task of collecting 10 of each species of a range of targeted species across a vast area of the State. Each was euthenased humanely following capture by injection of Sodium Pentabarbitone, a very distasteful job, but nevertheless, a critically important one for the long-term survival of not only the fauna but also the people inhabiting the study region. When it came to the roos, I just drove the roads and picked up the road-kills. On the other hand, one of the NPWS workers decided that fresh kills were better (even though this was not really necessary) and convinced the head of the team to bring his rifle along so that he could show us the easy way to collect roos. Upon arrival at the study site on a prominant cotton farm he immediately departed and started off hunting the roos by shooting the Farm Kookaburra, a Swamp Harrier (which he had to finish-off by choking it to death), a black duck, and three roos - none of which were clean kills. Upon his return to the vehicle, he climbed into the back of the land-cruiser were I was already sitting, and his firearm discharged, sending a 222 bullet flying past my head and blowing out the window beside me!
Now, even though I was a very experienced firearm user myself, he was the "professional" and of course you couldn't tell him anything at all. I was so experienced with guns that I wouldn't risk using them in the presence of a field party, because there are just too many people to keep an eye on, as well as look for wildlife. But I know people make mistakes so easily with guns despite their experience. Sometimes you just get over-whelmed with the whole shooting experience and raw instincts can take over. Something similar even once happened to me...and it was really surprising how I reacted to an otherwise innocent event. At the time my wife and I were walking up the driveway to check the mail, when all of a sudden, I heard the unmistakeable swish of an incoming .308, whereupon I instantly slammed her onto the ground and threw myself over her to avoid the hit...but when I looked around it was only an attacking magpie swooping us !......I didn't bother telling my wife what had made me do it...and to this day she still thinks I'm a just frisky devil at heart....
Richard Wells
slim6y
Almost Legendary
Who is this directed at???
If it is me... I don't have a 'save the roos' mentality... i have a 'it's our mistake, let's make it right' mentality. I don't care if it's roos or the carnivorous snail of NZ... they have their claim to the land, and we need to co-exist and do so sustainabley.
This world is dominated by humans, strangely enough I kind of like it that way, but I am not sure much of nature feels this way. We have a right, both morale and ethical to keep it right.
I certainly never mocked anyone for their thoughts... was rather disapointed that these thoughts exist without education... but I seriously hope no one was offended or upset if they believe I mocked them.
I actually hope you weren't talking about me to be honest... Because of all things I have done, was never talked down to anyone... I can be disapointed that an attitude occurs, right? it's just me. For the time I will assume the comment was directed at someone else.
I hope none of you people would consider killing rats or cockroaches which infested your houses. It's our fault for changing the place, they only live in our houses because we put them there; they don't deserve to die. I hope you don't take action if your body is infested by worms or your hair by lice, they are only doing what they know and are not to blame - their colonies are only present due to your irresponsible and selfish refusal to kill yourself. There is too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, everyone stop breathing. Quick!
I've stopped feeding my snakes rats, they only eat carrots now. Carrots which are farmed on land which used to support kangaroos! Oh no! The hypocrisy! I'll try to convert them to feeding on used tyres which would otherwise go to land fill. I'll let you all know how I go.
Oh no! I'm using a computer, it's using electricity, I'm destroying the planet!
Enjoy your lamb chops everyone. Poor little lambies :cry: Enjoy living in your houses made of wood, eating plants farmed on land which has been cleared away, no longer supporting the ecosystems which once thrived there. Keep making your way around in vehicles powered by the burning of fuels.
In an ideal world, nothing would ever die for any reason, but the reality is that if we want to live, we will kill animals and plants, even if it is indirectly through the use of fossil fuels, breathing, eating, drinking, taking up space, producing bodily waste...
My favourite animal is the Eastern Grey Kangaroo, but I am not too stubborn to admit that there is a clear need to cull them in many areas. There are more now than before white people turned up, we have changed the land in ways which allows them to build up the population densities to levels which harm other native species, as well as our agricultural efforts.
I'll try to give one simple example in a way which almost anyone should be able to easily understand. In many areas, kangaroo numbers were limited by water availability. I won't get into the physiological explanation, but kangaroos can eat very low quality food and thrive on it if water is available (animals like cows and sheep will die on such food, no matter how much of it they have, even with unlimited water). Our farming practises include dotting the landscape with dams, giving kangaroos unlimited water, which means that unlike a natural situation, they are able to eat all of the food available to them, which makes it unavailable to anything else. Yes, in this case (which is common in arid regions, which Australia isn't short of), the dams are causing the problems, yes, they are human-caused problems, but that doesn't help the follow on damage caused (which includes negative effects on other native species), which can be prevented by culling.
It is completely ridiculous to expect that the human caused changes can be reversed (if you disagree, feel free to get the ball rolling by leaving the country or killing yourself - what's that? You're not going to? No, that's not a surprise), so unfortunately we need to take active measures to ensure that further damage isn't caused. It's very easy to look at these issues on the surface and get upset about killing a beautiful animal such as a kangaroo, but taking a passive stance causes much more harm.
I've stopped feeding my snakes rats, they only eat carrots now. Carrots which are farmed on land which used to support kangaroos! Oh no! The hypocrisy! I'll try to convert them to feeding on used tyres which would otherwise go to land fill. I'll let you all know how I go.
Oh no! I'm using a computer, it's using electricity, I'm destroying the planet!
Enjoy your lamb chops everyone. Poor little lambies :cry: Enjoy living in your houses made of wood, eating plants farmed on land which has been cleared away, no longer supporting the ecosystems which once thrived there. Keep making your way around in vehicles powered by the burning of fuels.
In an ideal world, nothing would ever die for any reason, but the reality is that if we want to live, we will kill animals and plants, even if it is indirectly through the use of fossil fuels, breathing, eating, drinking, taking up space, producing bodily waste...
My favourite animal is the Eastern Grey Kangaroo, but I am not too stubborn to admit that there is a clear need to cull them in many areas. There are more now than before white people turned up, we have changed the land in ways which allows them to build up the population densities to levels which harm other native species, as well as our agricultural efforts.
I'll try to give one simple example in a way which almost anyone should be able to easily understand. In many areas, kangaroo numbers were limited by water availability. I won't get into the physiological explanation, but kangaroos can eat very low quality food and thrive on it if water is available (animals like cows and sheep will die on such food, no matter how much of it they have, even with unlimited water). Our farming practises include dotting the landscape with dams, giving kangaroos unlimited water, which means that unlike a natural situation, they are able to eat all of the food available to them, which makes it unavailable to anything else. Yes, in this case (which is common in arid regions, which Australia isn't short of), the dams are causing the problems, yes, they are human-caused problems, but that doesn't help the follow on damage caused (which includes negative effects on other native species), which can be prevented by culling.
It is completely ridiculous to expect that the human caused changes can be reversed (if you disagree, feel free to get the ball rolling by leaving the country or killing yourself - what's that? You're not going to? No, that's not a surprise), so unfortunately we need to take active measures to ensure that further damage isn't caused. It's very easy to look at these issues on the surface and get upset about killing a beautiful animal such as a kangaroo, but taking a passive stance causes much more harm.
Earthling
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I havent read all this thread..toooo long. but has anyone mentioned the killing of 'dingos' in Australia?
As i understand it there are licenced doggers who get money for each dog they kill.
Now these dogs are actually dingos. But.... and this is the thing.... they are maybe 90% dingo and 10% introduced dog. Or maybe even 50/50. Thing is, on the mainland, where this is happening, there is no 100% dingo anymore so all dingos are now classified as dogs.
If these 'dogs' were 100% dingos would the shooting of them been allowed as easily as it has?
This shooting is in very marginal country which is so busted**** it should never been farmed in the first place.
Just for the record Ive shot many a roo, however i used them to eat and dog food. it was always in areas where there was a high density of roo.
I was proud to eat what i killed, rather then let someone else kill what i wanted to eat.
As i understand it there are licenced doggers who get money for each dog they kill.
Now these dogs are actually dingos. But.... and this is the thing.... they are maybe 90% dingo and 10% introduced dog. Or maybe even 50/50. Thing is, on the mainland, where this is happening, there is no 100% dingo anymore so all dingos are now classified as dogs.
If these 'dogs' were 100% dingos would the shooting of them been allowed as easily as it has?
This shooting is in very marginal country which is so busted**** it should never been farmed in the first place.
Just for the record Ive shot many a roo, however i used them to eat and dog food. it was always in areas where there was a high density of roo.
I was proud to eat what i killed, rather then let someone else kill what i wanted to eat.
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