Tongs debate!!

[snakehandler]

For a long time now there has been a great deal of pressure to provide proof that tongs do not harm snakes. Despite having approval to do this testing, using 132 different specimens that all tested to be fine, no injuries and no deaths, people will still claim that tongs are dangerous.

Some brands are dangerous and should be banned, one such tong is the pilstrum tongs.

I put the call out. Can anybody provide evidence, backed up, verified and from a reliable source that tongs such as gentle giants cause any harm to the snake......for ages it has been on the onus of the side defending tongs to provide proof...but lets see what comes out in terms of evidence, not hear say, not anecdotal but proof.

Many of you believe they do not have a use...some do....

 

[JasonL]

I have never had a problem with the use of tongs, the correct use that is. It ludicrous to think that because someone uses tongs that the snake will be harmed. I'd rather someone on hand and willing to try and save a snake using tongs than a shovel, and there's always someone wanting to help out with a shovel not to far away.

 

[snakehandler]

I understand that some people do see the use of tongs as acceptable....but I am tired of arguing the fact they do not injure snakes......I want proof from these people of the damage they do......not defensive response of biting demonstrating stress....this can be shown with every technique......physical harm....physical damage.

 

[elapid@]

mate i only use them when i need to, there only dangerous to the animal if you use them the wrong way, ive never had a problem or have they. I dont use them on my own snakes as there is just no need for it. though a wild adult eastern brown on a hot day sssss up in a corner around other people in a confined space , can be very very handy. I have all types of tools i use and i always take tongs with me just incase, The best tool you can take with you is a couple of bandages.......

 

[Kris]

I think you'll only get 1 main person that will "debate" you about them.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

I personally have never had the need to use tongs, and can't really see that I will, but who knows what the future holds? I do agree with Snakehandler that from a OHS point of view they do have their place, even if that place is in a kit bag in the back of a ute. We are in the process of implementing their use into our Industry based courses, and will strictly be using Midwest Gentle Giants after trying all brands personally on our own snakes.

 

[redbellybite]

I think you'll only get 1 main person that will "debate" you about them.

Why Kris thankyou you couldve come straight out and said it, I dont mind you using my name ....You know my views and I dont care what your reasons are I still feel the same way about the use of them .AND to make it clear for the 100th time ..I wasnt saying that the gentle giant tongs are causing injuries on the snakes ..my issue is, that in a situation where you want a calm and quiet reptile as best as you can have it ,tongs clamp down! even if its not hurting the snake it is creating "defensive behaviour"by clamping ,and in so you are then faced with a angry snake to which a situation has more chance of going wrong ..it is not like a snake hook that lifts the snake up ...what worries me to is the more new people to the catching /relocating if using and relying on tongs ,you may end up with people that in a hook situation would never had made the grade but using this device they get the pass ..and so we get people now that have less confidence and wit about themselves relying on a tool implement ..and I know I am not the only one on APS that is against using the even so called" snake friendly"gentle giant tong .for the same reasons .

 

[snakehandler]

Actually RBB I have seen a brown launch at a hook and attempt to bite it. A person does not complete a course just by being able to do one technique, they must show competence in all techniques. I can show you defensive action from snakes with every technique used. I can also show you snakes that do not respond defensively to the tongs....in the wild....the technique when taught correctly does not "clamp"down any harder than when you use the technique of tailing....it is just further up the body. Before you condem a technique you should research your information about all techniques and attempt them all over a period of time.

Even with this statement I am yet to see any proof that tongs create harm to a snake.......again RBB you have been successful in getting a defense response....but not one piece of evidence has surfaced....SHOW ME PROOF!

 

[redbellybite]

it is my view like I said ..and the fact you do have to use it further up the body you may know what your doing but alot of catchers get through the loop hole and get a permit and are really a danger to themselves its not that black and white to get a permit ,people have ways of getting round the system ,you probably even know of some bad licensed catchers if not I am sure there are others on here that do, and that only makes the COWBOYS in this industry even worse ,they may not care as much where to correctly grab with a tong etc ..we can just beg to differ on this subject snakehandler cause you wont convert me .

 

[TrueBlue]

Wether they harm snakes or not they are just not needed imo, and i belive anyone that HAS to use them to catch a wild snake is NOT competent and should not be relocating snakes in the first place. Simple.
Ive relocated hundreds of snakes from just about every situation you could imagine and NEVER had an instance where tongs were needed.
Much the same as the use of snakes that have had their venom glads removed to use in shows.

 

[snakehandler]

So Dr. Bryan Fry is not competent.....hmmm one of the worlds leading venom researcher!!!

 

[TrueBlue]

I know Bryan well, and he would know how i feel about tongs. To tell you the truth im amazed that he would ever use them.

 

[Jonno from ERD]

I too know Bryan and give him plenty of curry about his handling techniques as well

 

[redbellybite]

cornered eastern brown ...should I wish for a set of tongs?

an eastern brown this riled up is not something I wouldnt try n catch while it is in that frame of defence,it does settle down enough to be "gently" hooked up and placed in my bag ..I have been in contact with defensive snakes ,myself,but have been taught by a great man how to relax a snake enough to get it in my bag ..so by the time I am hooking up and tailing that action has settled down and is quiet easy to bag .
a stressed out snake is the most dangerous one to encounter ,so the least amount of stress i place upon a snake the better for both it and myself.

 

[Christopher51383]

Tongs for BBQ snake hooks for snakes.....

 

[snakehandler]

I would have used a hook as well....

but no one can give me facts about harm they cause

 

[redbellybite]

I would have used a hook as well....

but no one can give me facts about harm they cause

yeah you wouldve made the right call,but alot of others would have gone straight for the tongs ,this big fella didnt even worry when i lifted his body up he slowly made his way out enough so I could pick up his tail and then he showed a bit of action due to being held but as it was for a few short seconds to being placed in my bag it was not subjected to alot of stress and didnt feel threatened ..had I held onto that tail for a longer period that out come would have been different it wouldve gotten stressed and then got into a defensive mode..with the tongs how do you create that situation?..one example how my trainer made us realise on how to pick up snakes he said you never "grab" he walked up to me and without knowing what he was going to do he grabbed me by the arm and pulled me ..he asked me how I felt I said well had you been someone that I didnt know ,I wouldve taken offence and gotten pissed off,then he did it again only this time he placed his hand underneath my arm and gently lifted and said now how did you feel ...his point was if you grab a snake you will create a defensive action ,if you lift a snake you will get a positive response..the hook lifts and only for a few seconds are you holding the tail end ..from how I have seen the tong used ,it grabs and then you use a pull method to get it off the ground this action is also done fast so there is no gentle approach at all .

 

[PilbaraPythons]

So far I have heard the following reasons why tongs are preferred.
To use them you are somehow incompetent.
They can injure the snake.
They make the snake defensive.

First I would love to hear how highly experienced people who have tailed and caught elapids for years that have now see reason to use some brands of tongs are suddenly incompetent ?

Secondly there are well designed tongs now days that simply do not injure the subject.

Thirdly, who cares if the snake is defensive if it is easy to catch it with the tongs without getting bitten? I can’t recall too many browns snake in a good mood after they have been tailed anyway.

 

[redbellybite]

I care ..and I suppose that is why I wont use them .

 

[saratoga]

First I would love to hear how highly experienced people who have tailed and caught elapids for years that have now see reason to use some brands of tongs are suddenly incompetent ?

I don't think anyone is suggesting this!

What I have said in another thread is that there are many people who are not confident with handling snakes and unfortunately many of these are using tongs with a false sense of safety and security...both for themselves and the snake!