truth about pet-stores

[tonesanlainie]

I think the main issue is that shops have a duty of care for the welfare of the livestock they sell. I think at the same time that not all pet shops are the same. Whilst there are examples of very poor shops there are also some very good shops. At the end of the day responsible pet shops have their place. And a responsible pet shop is one that has morals (this also costs money) and so they may also charge for this so expect to pay a price premium. I have read comments on how sometimes pet shops rip people off by charging over inflated prices, well this is what may be necessary for a shop to act responsibly. Of course some are irresponsible and charge too much as well. But what I am trying to say is if you dont like the shop, or their practices then obviously dont buy from them. Those that do act responsibly should be supported wherever possible. If someone whom is unaware to walk into a pet shop, let it be a supported and ethical shop, that has high standards. Those that dont will overshone by those that do. Unfortunately customers are often dollar consious as well, and many will want bargain prices to compete with thise shops that can afford to cut corners. In an ideal world all customers would put dollars with ethics. I am not saying we should all buy from pet shops, just that they have a place. My first python came from a pet shop, if I need a replacement ceramic in a hurry I buy one, and dont complain about the price. If I am thoughtful I have a spare.

BTW I am in no way employed or own a livestock business, just dont like people complaining about prices, unless it involves irresponsible practises.

 

[Mangles]

none of this surprises me.. shops have to make money and have overheads etc.. but when dealing with live animals they should offer more accurate advice and look after them correctly.

why would anyone ever deal with a pet shop in the first place for live animals when superior quality can always be sourced from private breeders? pet shops would also be a russian roulette for things like OPMV, disease, mites, worms etc

and as far as rodents go.. pet shops are rip offs.. rodents can be sourced from private breeders much cheaper and superior quality and freshness in my opinion.

and moving on to accessories, enclosures etc.. these can also be obtained from specialist online stores like URS and Herpshop etc and delivered usually within a few days.. enclosures can be custom made by blokes like dickyknee from this website and are fantastic quality, excellent value and professionally made.. and Im sure theres others in other states too for enclosures. hatchie tubs and hides (inverted plant water dishes etc) can be sourced from K-mart, nurseries, bunnings, $2 shops etc.

why would anyone want to be ripped off by pet shops that basically dont care about their animals, dont really care about their customers, dont give accurate advice and just want to fleece you of your hard earned money as quick as possible? :lol:

Could not agree more. I just lost a sale of a Stimsons hatchling to a Pet Store and the person paid $220 more from the pet store than what I was selling for. It was their first snake and they feel safer dealing with a large Pet Store than somebody they do not know. I have been into this store many times and quite often when I am in there the snakes cages are dirty with stale faeces and no water. I know the manager there, and she is very knowledgable about reptiles, but I doubt any of the other staff are, and they are just too busy to look after all the animals properly like most (not all) breeders would.

I did not say anything to this person, as they had already decided and it would have sounded like sour grapes on my behalf, and I hope it all turns out well for them.

I just hope they did not get ripped off with all the other accessories and food. Whenever I sell a snake to a Novice, I tell them where they can buy products from on line and put them on to some private rodent breeders, plus I am always available to answer any questions. I would even be prepared to help these people out if they have any problems with the hatchling they just bough even though it was not from me.

 

[seanjbkorbett]

I think the main issue is that shops have a duty of care for the welfare of the livestock they sell. I think at the same time that not all pet shops are the same. Whilst there are examples of very poor shops there are also some very good shops. At the end of the day responsible pet shops have their place. And a responsible pet shop is one that has morals (this also costs money) and so they may also charge for this so expect to pay a price premium. I have read comments on how sometimes pet shops rip people off by charging over inflated prices, well this is what may be necessary for a shop to act responsibly. Of course some are irresponsible and charge too much as well. But what I am trying to say is if you dont like the shop, or their practices then obviously dont buy from them. Those that do act responsibly should be supported wherever possible. If someone whom is unaware to walk into a pet shop, let it be a supported and ethical shop, that has high standards. Those that dont will overshone by those that do. Unfortunately customers are often dollar consious as well, and many will want bargain prices to compete with thise shops that can afford to cut corners. In an ideal world all customers would put dollars with ethics. I am not saying we should all buy from pet shops, just that they have a place. My first python came from a pet shop, if I need a replacement ceramic in a hurry I buy one, and dont complain about the price. If I am thoughtful I have a spare.

BTW I am in no way employed or own a livestock business, just dont like people complaining about prices, unless it involves irresponsible practises.

blah blah blah..what?? the hell r u on about!?? my post was hardly and not really directed on prices being to high! but they do over price some of their products mate...thats besides the point..i metioned a lil bit of over -pricing but this thread was AIMED at the way SOME of them treat their animals badly,sell them to just any-one and just dont know anything about the product they are selling! so enough with the mathematical crap! also i have stated not all shops are like this!....only some! mainly the big PET SUPERSTORE chains!...thats all the pricing in pet shops is another issues,maybe u can start a thread about it.

 

[DragonOwner]

We have 2 pet stores here ones called krazy critters where i got my bearded dragon i should say rescued. Well they housed 4 3 month old 6 inche long babies in a 4ft tank with just an undertank heat mat. They had a compact bulb in there enclosure but don't think it was a uvb one as it was thin and small. When i went in my beardie wasn't very active just laid there probably due to the fact that it wasn't warm enough and weren't feed properly. Just found out they were only feeding them 4 crickets a day one day,next day veggies,then the next day 4 mealworms. We all know that young bearded dragons need protein everyday and eat as much as they can in 10 minutes 2 to 3 times a day and offer veggies everyday too. They weren't giving calcium powder either, just offered water in bowl no spraying to lick up droplets of water. Said that my girls dad is a red phase mum is normal not sure if i believe this. Thank god Safira was only there for a couple of days till i got her enclosure set up and got paid.
The other pet store is called fish an things there a bit better but not by much there turtles are kept in a 2ft tank all water with just one rock sticking out of the water, Theres like 6 to 7 turtles in this tank so they fight over the rock that is sticking out of the water. One of there green tree frogs has a lump on its back which they will not do anything for it. One of there mexian walking fish had wounds all over it and had fungus growing on it, it ended up dieing. They reckon my bearded dragon is going to die at 6 months of age.
We have got a petstock here too which also sells some reptiles,fish and birds. There no better there bearded dragon they have in there is 6 months old and is only 6inches long.. They only feed it like 8 crickets every other day,veggies everyday. All these pet stores here care for the money, out of all of them fish an things is the best. Price wise bearded dragons from krazy critters go for $105each,petstock $110each fish an things $90each. They all give out the wrong advice to people.

 

[reptilefan95]

agreed sean and mangles sean was only saying that it troubles him that people in petshops only care about selling there products or livestock even if they know its not right, he didnt say anything except they do have very high prices most of the time and why would you pay a premium price for a subpar specimen??

 

[discomat]

it's a wonder how any pet shop manages to sell pets. these days, there are plenty of breeders around for just about any animal. Breeders are almost always cheaper, more knowledgable and usually cared for better. the only thing i can see pet shops are good for are specialty items and impulse buys. plus if a private breeder rips you off or something you can always go back to their house late at night and egg their house and wrap glad-wrap over their car.

 

[chondrogreen]

What do you expect being argumentative to the boss lol.
Oh and a 4ft long x 2ft high enclosure is perfectly fine for a 5ft Coatal.
Business is business. In any business venture sales come 1st, stock 2nd & customers 3rd.
When there is overheads, mark ups, wages and other commodoties involved money usually takes priority.
Not saying it is right or wrong but thats how it goes in ALL facets of business although some have higher standards of morals then others.

 

[miss2]

pricing for fish where i worked was cost price x 3 plus 10 %

 

[reptilefan95]

miss2 thats alot! infact way too much where did your shop buy holesale??

 

[seanjbkorbett]

What do you expect being argumentative to the boss lol.
Oh and a 4ft long x 2ft high enclosure is perfectly fine for a 5ft Coatal.
Business is business. In any business venture sales come 1st, stock 2nd & customers 3rd.
When there is overheads, mark ups, wages and other commodoties involved money usually takes priority.
Not saying it is right or wrong but thats how it goes in ALL facets of business although some have higher standards of morals then others.

where does it say i was arguementative to the "boss!"..i NEARLY got arguementive to a "STAFF" member telling me "YOU CANT USE HEAT-MATS WITH REPTILES ANYMORE"...umm and on the coastal part!coastals do get BIGGER.. it was ment to b a trick question by him!!..he obviosly was saying a small enclosure to see what i would say about it....or why else would he ask that..u sound like u work in a place that has good work ethics..ahaha..must be a BOSS yourself or one of those boss butt sniffers for you to defend against what i posted this thread about.

 

[chondrogreen]

where does it say i was arguementative to the "boss!"..i NEARLY got arguementive to a "STAFF" member telling me "YOU CANT USE HEAT-MATS WITH REPTILES ANYMORE"...umm and on the coastal part!coastals do get BIGGER.. it was ment to b a trick question by him!!..he obviosly was saying a small enclosure to see what i would say about it....or why else would he ask that..u sound like u work in a place that has good work ethics..ahaha..must be a BOSS yourself or one of those boss butt sniffers for you to defend against what i posted this thread about.

No need to get all narky about it.
And I am as far as they come from a butt sniffer as you will find.
As for being a boss, sure I run several businesses and understand the concept of making money (something you just don't learn on the dole)

BTW, I am not defending anyone. Just pointing out the obvious so you may actually find employment in the future. You were argumentative with the boss by insinuating that the animals care should be priority one even after he stated the customer comes 1st. You were nearly argumentative (what did you just think about your debate to yourself lol) with another staff member & you made it clear to the employer that you have concerns regarding the way the shop prioritise or runs. This is why you don't work there or any other Petshop atm. I agree with you that their priorities suck, as do most bussinesses. As I said before some have better morals then others but ALL are going to be about the money JMHO.

And regardless of the size of snake, a 4x2 enclosure is fine for a Coastal Carpet.
And they are not full Arboreal, they are only semi arboreal. The height is not as important as it would be for GTP's for example.
IMO the height & length would suit an adult carpet. I have used the same size enclosure for all carpet species (smaller for Jungles)

 

[seanjbkorbett]

I am not defending anyone. Just stating the obvious so you may actually get employment in the future lol. You were argumentative with the boss by insinuating that the animals care should be priority one even after he stated the customer comes 1st. If you wanted the job you should of kept your mouth shut. Regardless of size a 4x2 enclosure is fine for a Coastal carpet. And they are not Arboreal, they are semi arboreal. The height & length would suit an adult carpet.

No need to get all narky about it.
I am far from a butt sniffer lol or a boss.
But I do run several businesses and understand the concept of making money (something you just don't learn on the dole)

the dole..iam employed (dam for a guy that runs businesses u cant read very well,ahaha)....no i think u got it wrong! HE put me in a SCENeRIO mate!..cos i was applying for the job! he said to me "okay now ill put you in a scenerio and tell me what you would say)..so i told him what I would say! and no a 4ft long by 2ft high would not be okay for a 5ft coastal carpet and defintly stunt its growth and i will not change my opinion on that..that guy BOSS u call it,whanted to hear what i would say..so i told him..it wasnt a argeument,it was a normal interview shook hands talked etc..but he is still a D i K for the way he runs that store,turtle fungus,no water for the reptiles...etc..and this thread was AIMED at BAD PETSTORES not on me not getting the job at NERANG PETBARN..ahaha..after meeting a BOSS like that,thank god dude! you probably wouldnt whant to work with him either...andthe part where u say i said the animals priority is number one! That was a FEMALE..not a him and i ddint argue with her either..it was my trial day and she asked me what came first basically..and i said animals.iam sorry i said animals...but i cannot work happy if i knew i lied to them to get the job...animals always should come first..as most rela animal lovers and breeders would know...any way enough of that,u just mis-read the post,and u and me have differnt opinions on what size a coastals carpets enclosure should be.. thats all.
cheers.

 

[jessb]

yeah dont get me wrong there are those pet-shops who sell reptiles who know all about their requirments and love them and wouldnt sell them to just any-one!! but those r the smaller private owned pet-stores..im talking about these big undustry major pet-stores..they r corrupt n use-less,alos they double the rpice of everything they sell....also there isnt enough aktual reptile pet -stores in QLD, like they have in VIC or in ADEL and SYD..i think it is mainly a QLD thing! and its sad...

In NSW reptiles aren't allowed to be sold in pet shops at all, and can only be displayed if the shop holds a display license.

blah blah blah..what?? the hell r u on about!?? my post was hardly and not really directed on prices being to high! but they do over price some of their products mate...thats besides the point..i metioned a lil bit of over -pricing but this thread was AIMED at the way SOME of them treat their animals badly,sell them to just any-one and just dont know anything about the product they are selling! so enough with the mathematical crap! also i have stated not all shops are like this!....only some! mainly the big PET SUPERSTORE chains!...thats all the pricing in pet shops is another issues,maybe u can start a thread about it.

Sean, perhaps you should be a bit more respectful of someone who has taken the time to include a thoughtful, well-punctuated, spell-checked post on your thread and at least read it properly before you flame them! tonesanlainie was pointing out that if you demand a high level of care for the animals in a pet shop, then you can also expect to pay higher prices which many people are unwilling to do. As far as I can tell it was completely on topic and I found it quite interesting!

As far as the topic goes, surely any good businessperson knows that a single sale with no repeat business is worth next to nothing. It costs about 3 times as much to recruit a new customer than it does to retain an existing one (not too much mathematical crap for you is it, Sean?) They should be focusing on creating repeat business by proving that their products (ie their animals) are healthy, well-kept and of top quality and their additional services like advice and customer service are also excellent. And as customers we should be willing to pay a slightly higher price for this service and support the businesses that are doing the right thing.

 

[miss2]

reptilefan95
we were obligied to use AI but sometimes i would sneak in bay order. lol it was stupidly a lot... that was one of the things we didnt have a choice in, it was written in to the contract from being a franchise store.
if a comet cost us $1.10 each then i would have to x 3 it and plus 10 % = $3.65

 

[miss2]

i think, lol ben a while since i have done that maths LOL

 

[Lewy]

No need to get all narky about it.


And regardless of the size of snake, a 4x2 enclosure is fine for a Coastal Carpet.
And they are not full Arboreal, they are only semi arboreal. The height is not as important as it would be for GTP's for example.
IMO the height & length would suit an adult carpet. I have used the same size enclosure for all carpet species (smaller for Jungles)

WOW I'm glad I'm not a carpet snake living with you!!!!

 

[seanjbkorbett]

In NSW reptiles aren't allowed to be sold in pet shops at all, and can only be displayed if the shop holds a display license.



Sean, perhaps you should be a bit more respectful of someone who has taken the time to include a thoughtful, well-punctuated, spell-checked post on your thread and at least read it properly before you flame them! tonesanlainie was pointing out that if you demand a high level of care for the animals in a pet shop, then you can also expect to pay higher prices which many people are unwilling to do. As far as I can tell it was completely on topic and I found it quite interesting!

As far as the topic goes, surely any good businessperson knows that a single sale with no repeat business is worth next to nothing. It costs about 3 times as much to recruit a new customer than it does to retain an existing one (not too much mathematical crap for you is it, Sean?) They should be focusing on creating repeat business by proving that their products (ie their animals) are healthy, well-kept and of top quality and their additional services like advice and customer service are also excellent. And as customers we should be willing to pay a slightly higher price for this service and support the businesses that are doing the right thing.

start a thread about it love!.....this was about pet-shops i thought did not do the right thing........im over it!.hate back n forth arguements.each to their own...iam annoyed with the way some large pet-stores run!...thats all.
cheers Sean.

 

[seanjbkorbett]

sorry to all if i came across rude or did not spell words correct enough for you!as i did not create this 2 be a arguementative thread,sorry if it came across that way..all opinions and views should be respected then,this is my last post.

 

[chondrogreen]

WOW I'm glad I'm not a carpet snake living with you!!!!

Opinions will vary, but the average size (that is AVERAGE size) of Coastals is 8ft.
Some will grow a bit bigger, some alot bigger and others smaller but on average 8ft seems to be common ground not just IMO but also in many writings on Herpetology.
As a rule of thumb for housing Pythons you can use the following to find the minimum dimensions of enclosure to use.

Terrestrial & semi arboreal Python = 1/2 x 1/4 x 1/4 the body length = 4x2x2ft for an 8ft Python.
Arboreal Python = 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/4 the body length = 4x4x2ft enclosure for an 8ft Python.

Of course the bigger the better in any situation but as a minimum a 4x2x2 would be perfectly fine for a Coastal.
BTW I havn't read anything on the NPWS enclosure standards but I am pretty confident they would probably use the same rule of thumb as reference for minimum standards (But I am sure to be corrected if wrong lol)

 

[Lewy]

Opinions will vary, but the average size (that is AVERAGE size) of Coastals is 8ft.
Some will grow a bit bigger, some alot bigger and others smaller but on average 8ft seems to be common ground not just IMO but also in many writings on Herpetology.
As a rule of thumb for housing Pythons you can use the following to find the minimum dimensions of enclosure to use.

Terrestrial & semi arboreal Python = 1/2 x 1/4 x 1/4 the body length = 4x2x2ft for an 8ft Python.
Arboreal Python = 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/4 the body length = 4x4x2ft enclosure for an 8ft Python.

BTW I havn't read anything on the NPWS enclosure standards but I am pretty confident they would probably use the same rule of thumb as reference for minimum standards (But I am sure to be corrected if wrong lol)

I'm so glad you told me the average size of a coastal as I would never of known this

You can stick to those sizes if that's what you think is good