whats your views of wild caught snakes in captivity???

[waruikazi]

I think there are enough captive bred reptiles in the industry without taking them from the wild. If you want new blood, buy a captive snake from another breeder!

I may be wrong, but I've always imagined releasing a captrive bred snake into the wild would mean certain death for the snake. How would they ever learn to survive on their own when they have been hand fed by their owners for most part of their lives?

Snakes are instinctual, they don't learn. If one is put back into the wild (in it's appropriate environment and healthy) it has as much chance of survival as any other.

Populations of wild animals will fluctuate depending on conditions but we need to remember that each adult animal of any given species only needs to be replaced by one individual of the same species over its entire lifetime for the population to remain steady.

 

[cadwallader]

This statement is pretty flawed and reflects inexperience.

Hypos, hypers, albinos etc etc all exist in wild populations within any species.

My opinion of most re-releases is that they are almost entirely symbolic.

I could not disagree with you more....
the difference in sizes from different populations such as the different lines of womas... the size can be some cases up to or just under (whatever) one meter.
so if in the natural system the sp are only growing to 1.5m and you release some that go to 2.5 the animals that they prey on can be greatly affected. Greater clutch sizes, large prey or more prey... they have evolved with a certain set of genes and characteristics and we should not be adding new one to the natural system...

 

[Waterrat]

they have evolved with a certain set of genes and characteristics and we should not be adding new one to the natural system...

How would you ad a new gene?

 

[Mighty_Moose]

Bad effects i would think.wild caught animals,of any species,deserve to be where god put them.

Garden of Eden tempting Eve perhaps ?

 

[cadwallader]

good point got me...:/
all that i can say in defence is that i dont believe in crossing different locals and releasing for size differences etc and effects they will have on the ecosystem...

 

[Fuscus]

Captive breeding for re-introduction is a viable option in case of 'close to extinction' species but such programs must be carefully structured and conducted by scientists.

I do know of one person who was breeding and releasing MDs in SA. They did it properly and had the blessing of the EPA.

 

[waruikazi]

I'm trying not to come off as a know it all. I'm far from an expert but this comment again reflects inexperience.

If it is the same species (lets not get started on ssp's) it doesn't matter, there is no new gentic material. If the animal is not suited to its environment (because of size, colour or whatever) chances are it wont survive.

I'll share a story that happened in 2008. I caught a brown snake out of a shipping yard, i was pretty confident that is was a hitch hyker so i wasn't keen on releasing it seeing as we didn't know where it was from. I spoke to Gavin Bedford (who owns crocosaurus cove) about what to do. He told me that if it is the same species it will have no effect on biodiversity. if it gets the chance to breed any different characteristics will get absorbed very quickly because they do not suit the environment.

But that is not was i was talking about, and it is not what you mentioned in your post. What we consider to be 'morphs' are all naturally occuring variations of a species, if you spend a bit of time in the feild you will quickly realize that everything you drool over and applaud breeders for producing can all be found in the wild.

I could not disagree with you more....
the difference in sizes from different populations such as the different lines of womas... the size can be some cases up to or just under (whatever) one meter.
so if in the natural system the sp are only growing to 1.5m and you release some that go to 2.5 the animals that they prey on can be greatly affected. Greater clutch sizes, large prey or more prey... they have evolved with a certain set of genes and characteristics and we should not be adding new one to the natural system...

 

[cadwallader]

ok. with out going in to subspecies the dingo and your dog are both canus lupus. just putting it out there...
p.s i know they aren't snakes thought ha

 

[waruikazi]

ok. with out going in to subspecies the dingo and your dog are both canus lupus. just putting it out there...
p.s i know they aren't snakes thought ha

But now you are going into sub species, they are Canis lupus dingo and domestic dogs are Canus lupus familiaris.

 

[Waterrat]

So, where are you heading with this statement? One dog in a population of dingos will have no effect of the genetic structure of the dingo population. 100 dogs might.

 

[cadwallader]

and you can count the wolf in in there too... Canis lupus wolf
off topic we are...lol

 

[waruikazi]

and you can count the wolf in in there too... Canis lupus wolf
off topic we are...lol

Well either way the result will all still be the same species. But when i said 'not taking into account ssp's' what i actually meant is that there could be issues there. I'm not sure what they are or if there are any but i do concede that you may have a point in that scenario.

 

[cadwallader]

hmm debatable im no expert as you may have guessed lol but say a larger dog become top dog in a pack of 5... and had 5 young for 3 years... there is 5-15 dingo crosses... which changed the genetics of the system.

i think im going to claim a loss here lol dont seem to be winning LOL Got me think though i shall look in to this more
Cheers

 

[waruikazi]

hmm debatable im no expert as you may have guessed lol but say a larger dog become top dog in a pack of 5... and had 5 young for 3 years... there is 5-15 dingo crosses... which changed the genetics of the system.

I think this is starting to get silly.

Assuming they all survived and assuming that being larger allowed them to thrive more than normal sized dingoes (there is a reaosn they are all around about the same size), they did not change the gentics of that system. They changed the genetics (i'm not even sure if their is a genetic difference between dingos and dogs) of that pack.

 

[zulu]

Without Wild caught reps we would have a very select range of herps to keep. Just think, NO Albino carpets, Roughies, hyper and albino blue tongues, no albino olives. The list goes on. Most of the stuff we keep or dream of keeping has originated from wild caught lines at some stage. Just my opinion.

Yes we need founder populations but government departments like the CALM in WA dont know when to stop taking.
They keep issuing and backing the taking of various species such as stimsoni,womas,bhps. If they would have taken a small founder population the price would stay high and captive breeding encouraged.
What they have now in WA is a system that plunders wild resources for royalties and fees much like mining.
All about the dollars for CALM or whatever they call themselves these days,pox on them!

 

[crocodile_dan]

Reintroduction programs for a species is a far more complex scenario than some people are aware, at present there is an incredibly high failure rate for successful reintroductions globally. A reintroduction program relies on the successful cooperation of scientists, breeding facilities (zoological), governments, communities, financial funding and years of preliminary and follow up observations, and still the chances of success are incredibly low.

Simply releasing animals to increase localized abundance is highly irresponsible and will most likely result in all introduced animals mortality and could reduce the communities fitness and survival.

 

[Elite_Reptiles]

O OHHH, here we go....were's Dave

 

[spotlight]

the hypocricy is overwhelming.

If you don't agree with keeping wild caught animals I suggest you give up your animals and keep a pet rock.

just as long as that pet rock was not taken from a national park !!

 

[damian83]

just wondering what your views are on wild caught reps being brought into the pet trade? i believe its wrong because the snake has had the freedom of being in the wild IMO. would love to hear other peoples views on this is it ok? what effect would it have on the snake???

didnt this thread start as keeping wild caught snakes in the first place, now its releasing captive snakes? i dont think there would be too many people
releasing captive snakes (but i have been wrong before)

 

[Dannyboi]

There have been a few release programs I have been aware of eg Condors, Murray Darlings. The condor release program there is a great documentary on it can't remember the name of the documentary but still. Showing the ridiculous efforts in selection of area selection of stock to be released and the raising of the stock and keeping track of them throughout their lives. Saying that releasing a Dog into dingo territory would be absorbed that I wouldn't be too sure, look at what happened with the American Bison and cattle. A majority of the Bison remaining are hybrids of the sort. (This is an extreme scenario and there was a lot more variables to do with it but still). Now correct me if I am wrong but wasn't one of the Albino Darwins found then breed and released? Now back to the thread topic Wild Caught snakes in captivity. I think that A: All snakes came from it in a sense. B: You don't have a guarantee that the nice man you bought your snakes off of didn't catch them. C: So long as they are looked after and treated well whats the problem? and D: Where else will we get genetic diversity in the hobby?