Dont be so harsh on newbies....

[Pythoninfinite]

This is by far the reason a lot of bad advice is thrown around.A new keeper signs up and asks very basic questions and within a day or two starts offering advice to others without even the faintest clue if that info is correct or not.I know that they are only trying to help but at the end of the day anyone can google info.

This is so true. In fact, quite apart from my own involvement (and my occasional rudeness might preclude me anyway ), Snowy's idea of a graded membership system might have some merit - if newcomers were able to distinguish easily who had the experience to offer good advice, then it might make confidence in following a particular path a lot easier for newbies. I always advocate settling on advice from one or two sources for any particular plan of attack, because although there are often several ways to do something well, often the methods don't mix.

Jamie

 

[eipper]

I am "fairly" blunt.... If you ask others it might be a slightly different description of my manner. It comes from stupid questions, lack of research and how some people have to accept that they might have to re assess whether or not they should keep animals. By all means ask, but don't expect me to give a toss if it goes pear shaped and you have not followed advice.

Many people are busy, we all have other commitments be it collections, work, household, lesuire etc. I am sure you can understand that I would rather spend time with my wife and kids than arguing with some random person that has no idea as to what they are on about.

By all means I advocate people fact check and use multiple sources.... You might need to vett your source better though sometimes.

Cheers
scott

 

[champagne]

I think the biggest problem is these newbies ask inexperienced question which is fine but then next week are experts giving out advice

 

[RedFox]

I forgot about this thread...With this hobby there are some really awesome books available for not all that much money. There are also some really good herp societies with member who are happy to assist beginners.

As a complete newbie myself I don't understand why so many basic questions are posted on here. I never felt the need to ask about feeding, shedding, etc, as that was all answered by the first fact sheet I came across, when I was 12. I always thought if a 12 year old me could find the info others would be able to but after lurking on here and then finally joining that obviously isn't the case. It seems to be even worst on facebook.

It makes me sad to think of all the knowledgable people that were once quite active on internet forums who now are not.

The gold star idea sounds good. It took me a little while as a lurker reading old posts to find which members were the knowledgable ones.

 

[Freeloader]

I joined this forum in 2006 and would never ever claim to have the knowledge that some people who have been on here less time have. Time is not a good indication.

 

[Snowman]

I joined this forum in 2006 and would never ever claim to have the knowledge that some people who have been on here less time have. Time is not a good indication.

Time is not "always" a good indication. But it may cut some on the new one minute experts out. For the most part we know who the gold star people are out there so it wouldn't be hard to give them authority badges.

 

[Scaleyfoot]

Everyone's an expert... Truth is, there's always a bigger fish

 

[Ninabuddha]

These days there is a massive amount of info available on the interwebs.More and more it seems that a lot of new keepers want to be spoon fed even the most basic stuff.

info just typed up isnt as handy as having experienced people give their advice yes some people need to be spoon fed as everyone learns differently.

 

[Bluetongue1]

Ninabuddha,
There is an inherit ‘danger’ in admitting wanting to be ‘spoon fed’. If you check out the dictionary definitions you will discover something to the effect of: “To give someone information in a way that requires or allows no further thinking or effort.” Members want to encourage you to self-sufficient and proactive, rather than dependant and indulged. This outlook can be motivated by what is considered best for your animals, or by a perceived indolence on your behalf.

Reading between the lines, I infer that you are seeking personal confirmation from experienced practitioners on specific keeping points. I would advise that you seek to be pointed in the right direction to quality care information about your specific animal(s) and then take in the information provided. If this or other circumstances generate questions, you can present your specific, rather than general, queries to the forum. You will definitely find you get a much more positive response from experienced forum members when it is clearly apparent you have done your share of the legwork first.

Blue

 

[cement]

When i was a kid and starting out with work etc, it was pretty tough finding someone who would give you a job. I worked for free for two weeks on a prawn boat just to get experience and land a job. When I decided to take up carpentry I rang EVERY builder in my local yellow pages and door knocked on every site I passed.
When I was fortunate enough to get a start, I didn't want to blow it so I pulled my head in, LISTENED and worked hard. At smoko and during breaks I would ask about what was the next stage etc.
There are some good kids today who are willing to put in effort and try their hands. BUT every newbie should understand this...... people with experience, get it from their own hard work, effort and aligning themselves with more experienced people.

To ask for advice or suggestions is fine, and you will find you will be given the right direction, but as soon as the attitude kicks in, your on your own.
Many experienced people don't give straight out correct, easy to understand answers, but prefer to give wisdom in a slightly more guarded fashion, in a way of finding out wether the person they are helping is actually worthy of the right info. Like Jamie said, it is the intuitive. humble, hard working ones who get the help.....not the know it all smart aleks who hear this and hear that.
The teacher chooses the pupil. The pupil does not choose the teacher.

 

[tahnia666]

I've recently, after a long hiatus, come back into reptile keeping. I used to keep a children's python, a carpet python,a coupla blueys, a stumpy, a crevice skink, some water dragons , some water skinks and various other species of skink. The first I got was my children's python and by far away the most loved, back then, I didn't have access to these forums and finding someone who could treat a sick reptile, as a result when my python started refusing food, despite hundreds of dollars I spent, eventually ended up dying. I was so devastated I gave the rest of my collection away, and have only just got another coastal.
So I don't really consider myself new to reptile keeping but I'm most assuredly a nervous freak when it comes to feeding and husbandry.
Fortunately, the breeder I got my snake from is an absolute gem and puts up with my repeated questions, usually about the same thing, and is always willing to help.

Anyway my point is that places like APS are excellent places to brush up on knowledge that you should probably already have a basic understanding of.

These forums are a great place to find varying opinions from keepers who have various levels of skill and knowledge. They should be taken as such, I've personally found it invaluable, when I'm unsure and just want to see how other people do it.

So my 2 cents.....
Get a good book and read it, or if you don't like books or don't/can't read, get your reptile from someone who knows their stuff, who you like and who's happy to help with after purchase care.
Once you have the basics its pretty easy to sort the poo from the chaff
And you'll be better equipped to sort out conflicting advice as it pertains to you and your reptile.
By the way, I love it here!

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk

 

[markannab]

I do get the point that people should do research before buying a reptile. But we're talking about those who didn't - and now they have a reptile but no knowledge. Rather than continue without knowledge, they hop on APS and ask simple questions to start building their knowledge. Isn't late better than never? Kind, helpful replies will encourage them to come back and seek more information so their reptile is cared for properly. Rude or, at least, blunt responses won't encourage their return because they've just been treated like an idiot. Where do they get their knowledge now? And how will the reptile suffer?

People make mistakes by not getting knowledge first. Who on APS will raise their hand first to say they've never gone head-long into a hobby, job or project without first doing research? We've all done it. But because we did do our research on the subject of reptiles, we stand on our soapbox?

 

[Snake_Whisperer]

There are also a lot of noobs with limited knowledge who give advise, which from my experience watching the forum, is often wrong. The hardest part for noobs isn't being told bluntly by keepers how to do things. But rather working out which advise to follow.

I think the Admin should have a gold standard for some members where their names appear in yellow. This would mean advise given from someone with a yellow name is to be trusted.
Some of the gold names would be:
Pythoninfonite
Eipper
Gecko dan
Fay
etc etc...
Or perhaps people who have been on here for over 5 years. (though time on here isn't always a good indicator.)

What the hell is this?!?! A great bloody idea, that's what! There are quite a few knowledgeable herpers on here who would make excellent candidates for this "Goldmember" group! I have no interest in offering a "how" you'd pull this off but it is one of the better ideas I've seen for this forum in a long time. All the members suggested are a great start, just not Jamie... he's too old... If you could convince Solar17/Baden and trueblue/Rob to sign up, they are both founts of knowledge as well.

 

[tahnia666]

I do get the point that people should do research before buying a reptile. But we're talking about those who didn't - and now they have a reptile but no knowledge. Rather than continue without knowledge, they hop on APS and ask simple questions to start building their knowledge. Isn't late better than never? Kind, helpful replies will encourage them to come back and seek more information so their reptile is cared for properly. Rude or, at least, blunt responses won't encourage their return because they've just been treated like an idiot. Where do they get their knowledge now? And how will the reptile suffer?

People make mistakes by not getting knowledge first. Who on APS will raise their hand first to say they've never gone head-long into a hobby, job or project without first doing research? We've all done it. But because we did do our research on the subject of reptiles, we stand on our soapbox?

Exactly

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Rlpreston]

I don't think the problem is asking for help with a question or two, or asking for opinions when an answer could be a matter of preference.

There is a problem, however, with posting a topic asking about where to house your new snake, what temp it needs, what to feed it, when to feed it, how big will it get, does it need water etc. when those can all be answered by googling the species name and opening up a care sheet.
Most of the care sheets are written by incredibly experienced keepers, why should such people repeat themselves so often when it is basic and easy to find?

Most of the times I've noticed the 'experienced' being short with the 'newbies' have been times when someone has pointed them in the direction of the answers only to be met with someone wanting to be babied or someone who thinks they know better. It goes both ways!

 

[molasseslass]

Most of the care sheets are written by incredibly experienced keepers, why should such people repeat themselves so often when it is basic and easy to find?

I completely understand the frustration when seeing every basic care question asked by the one newbie but I just wanted to point out that, as a newbie, I don't know who's an "incredibly experienced keeper" who's care sheet I should follow and who's a "dimwit with a website" who's care sheet isn't really accurate.

I read lots of sites and books before getting our reptiles and thought I had the basics covered. But then I attended info sessions given by experienced keepers at my local reptile outlet and discovered a lot was nonsense and they lacked some important things (like quarantine).

 

[Snowman]

Noobs should be limited to 5 posts a day max for their first two years

(just joking don't get too carried away world protectors and keyboard warriors!)

 

[Newhere]

I'm a newbie and I've been on here for around six months, I don't own any reptiles and I consider this forum a big part of my research. I've read lots of care sheets and they are fairly basic compared to the amount of information available on here especially information about some of the problems one may face when caring for a reptile. I can understand why the more experienced people on here get irritated with people buying animals first and then coming here to ask basic questions but on the other hand thats where I get most of my info from(waiting for the experienced to offer advice to the newbies).

One thing that does annoy me tho is when someone that I consider to be a wealth of information offers advice to a newbie and the newbie completely ignores the advice given yet still claims they have the same problem. Eg- someones snake wont eat and they get given advice to wait a week then the next day they come on and say they tried again and it still didnt eat. Thats why I think the more experienced people get frustrated and sometimes get blunt. I just hope they all don't get sick of it and leave as some have in the past.

Anyway as a newbie that is here to soak up much info as possible before making my purchase I just wanna say thanks to all members that have offered their knowledge and experience in past, present and future threads. I really appreciate all the time it takes to gain this knowledge and put it into words for us newbies to understand.

 

[andynic07]

Noobs should be limited to 5 posts a day max for their first two years

(just joking don't get too carried away world protectors and keyboard warriors!)

I am glad that you are joking, I think it should be 2 thoughtful posts and one stupid post per day.

 

[Newhere]

Or they should just remove the post counter, who cares how many posts people make it doesn't mean anything considering there is people that have plenty of experience and have never even used this forum. I've got over a hundred posts and I don't even own any reptiles.