Help! Need to find out what this substrate is - Vermiculite ?

[HayleyChuck93]

Hey!
I bought this amazing substrate from the VHS reptile expo and want more! I cannot locate the seller I got it from. I think i got it from SECA reptiles but they don't have a website or anything. Is there any where else I can get it or get more info on it? It appears to be made for cork and is very shiny and makes my snakes really shiny too.

Mod Note: This topic was originally posted over two threads, which have subsequently been merged into this one. Where necessary, quotes have been added to preserve thread continuity.

 

[AUSHERP]

It looks like vermiculite to me. It is a water holding medium you can find it at bunnings usually in the garden section. If thats what it is

 

[andynic07]

Yes [MENTION=6886]AUSHERP[/MENTION] it looks the same to me and I am not sure how well it would go as a substrate.

 

[MesseNoire]

You can also buy it in a "cat litter" form from petbarn now too. I can't remember the price though.

 

[turtle]

I thought that vermiculite can be quite toxic if digested not to mention the other complications.

just a thought!

 

[HayleyChuck93]

I was told it was organic, and it was sold from someone who breeds reptiles pretty sure they wouldn't sell something toxic at a reptile expo


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[Ramy]

Assuming it's vermiculite, it shouldn't be toxic, though it's a mineral not "organic" (which is a term that has lost all meaning). It's still a substrate that holds water, sticks to wet food items, and doesn't break down in a digestive tract. Best not to swallow too much of it.

Looks too shiny to be made of cork or wood chip...

 

[HayleyChuck93]

So it shouldn't make my snakes unwell? I am freaking out now

I thought that vermiculite can be quite toxic if digested not to mention the other complications.

just a thought!

What other complications? :/


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[HayleyChuck93]

Vermiculite as a substrate?

I have been informed that the substrate I bought from a reptile expo is vermiculite. Is it safe to have this in my snakes terrariums?



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[Woma_Wild]

Only uses I know of for vermiculite is in horticulture and the building industry for fire proofing.
Did a google search for you- it's also used a cat litter.

Sorry, not much help to you re: use as a substrate.

All I could find is that it's used in horticulture and in the building industry and used as a cat litter.
I would not be feeding my animals on it in any case.

Apparently it swells with heat.

 

[Umbral]

With all the other substrates that are available and have been used for years I'm not sure I would risk it.

 

[andynic07]

The msds for it says that it is inert meaning it will not react with other substances but can be irritating to the gastrointestinal tract , eyes and lungs in large amounts which I would think 24 hours 7 days a week would be. That is for humans and not reptiles but I think that I would not take the risk. It also would not be digestible and can absorb up to 300% of its volume in fluid which could possibly dehydrate your reptile if swallowed.


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[Drazzy]

If it is indeed vermiculite.

Vermiculite contains *drum roll* Asbestos.

"Today, most vermiculite is safe. However, that is not to say it cannot contain asbestos. Vermiculite which is accompanied by a great deal of dust likely has residual asbestos in its contents and should be used with caution. Current EPA regulations ban products which contain 1% or more asbestos. Unfortunately even products containing less that 1% asbestos are still extremely hazardous, particularly when in loose dust form as vermiculite often is manufactured."

quoted from. Vermiculite and Asbestos: how to minimize the risks | Eartheasy Blog

Use news paper

Happy herping Hayley

 

[andynic07]

Yeah , I posted in the other thread and thought the information was worth sharing in this one for those that did not realise.


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[HayleyChuck93]

Thanks for the info Drazzy!
I have removed this from my snakes enclosures.
I can't believe someone would sell this at a reptile expo. I am so infuriated and disappointed.


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[Ramsayi]

I wouldn't consider using vermiculite as a substrate.Apart from tiny pieces sticking really well to anything that it touches it also sucks moisture from the air which would lead to an even lower humidity that enclosures already have.

Vermiculite contains *drum roll* Asbestos.

Not necessarily

"Today, most vermiculite is safe. However, that is not to say it cannot contain asbestos. Vermiculite which is accompanied by a great deal of dust likely has residual asbestos in its contents and should be used with caution. Current EPA regulations ban products which contain 1% or more asbestos. Unfortunately even products containing less that 1% asbestos are still extremely hazardous, particularly when in loose dust form as vermiculite often is manufactured."

Depends on the location it has been dug up from.If there was no asbestos in that area then it wouldn't contain asbestos.Also with the knowledge as it is today about asbestos companies would most likely dig up vermiculite from clean areas.

 

[HayleyChuck93]

I am so angry that this was sold to me!
It had been in my snakes enclosure for nearly two weeks. Would they be okay?


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[Senator358]

Thanks for the info Drazzy!
I have removed this from my snakes enclosures.
I can't believe someone would sell this at a reptile expo. I am so infuriated and disappointed.


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It is sold at expos because it is widely used for incubation substrate. Maybe you misunderstood the purpose.

 

[HayleyChuck93]

It is sold at expos because it is widely used for incubation substrate. Maybe you misunderstood the purpose.

No i did not. It was pushed onto me as 'an amazing substrate, that retains moisture well and decreases the smell of urine'. I was approached about it and given a big sales pitch about how great it is as a substrate for reptiles.


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[andynic07]

If there are no ill signs I would think that it will be ok. As for the asbestos I think there is a very slim chance that it would have any in the vermiculite and if it did there is no study of effects on reptiles. I would not worry about it. Vermiculite does not have any long term effects after removed.

It just shows that it pays to research every bit of information that you are told before making a change.


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