debate about smacking children

[Weezer]

Tut tut, no need to get pointy touchy about it ..... I guess you don't have to deal with bickering kids do you? 8) You'd never have kept me under control with that attitude :lol:

My post wasn't aimed at anyone- and, ummm.. might wanna do some research before you make assumptions- maybe view the odd gallery or just read a man's sig...

And my approach works for me- perhaps your hypothetical scenario is more a self assessment than a judgement of my parental abilities -

I was caned and beaten by primary school teachers, then on the way home by local thugs, then by my folks when they came home- i was beaten like a drum as a young kid and all I learnt was that I could take a beating- and that I would NEVER touch my kid- I made that decision at 9 years old and I stick with it now- along with the decision to take up martial arts and snap the fingers of anybody who attempted to hurt me again !!

Funnily enough it was MMA that taught me there was actually another solution. The irony !!

.. and I have never felt physically threatened by a child....

So when I hear that old excuse often used by molesters and aggressive adults that they suffered as a child and therefore that is the root of the problem- NO WAY. Poor judgement and self discipline is the problem there....if you look at a child's behaviour and somehow think it rlates to whether the child was hit or not- well, ...what can I say- obviously that means that hitting is the answer to the world's problems hey ?

i better go hit my kid right now- I find though that kneeling down and talking to her calmly and directly in the eye does wonders- they accept the advice and feel as though they are being treated like a grown up. I will save my beatings for her boyfriends when she turns 16


....and now I'm ducking out of this before we all start swinging !

anyone who would like to take me to task- feel free to PM me.

 

[moosenoose]

My post wasn't aimed at anyone- and, ummm.. might wanna do some research before you make assumptions- maybe view the odd gallery or just read a man's sig...

And my approach works for me- perhaps your hypothetical scenario is more a self assessment than a judgement of my parental abilities -

I was caned and beaten by primary school teachers, then on the way home by local thugs, then by my folks when they came home- i was beaten like a drum as a young kid and all I learnt was that I could take a beating- and that I would NEVER touch my kid- I made that decision at 9 years old and I stick with it now- along with the decision to take up martial arts and snap the fingers of anybody who attempted to hurt me again !!

Funnily enough it was MMA that taught me there was actually another solution. The irony !!

.. and I have never felt physically threatened by a child....

So when I hear that old excuse often used by molesters and aggressive adults that they suffered as a child and therefore that is the root of the problem- NO WAY. Poor judgement and self discipline is the problem there....if you look at a child's behaviour and somehow think it rlates to whether the child was hit or not- well, ...what can I say- obviously that means that hitting is the answer to the world's problems hey ?

i better go hit my kid right now- I find though that kneeling down and talking to her calmly and directly in the eye does wonders- they accept the advice and feel as though they are being treated like a grown up. I will save my beatings for her boyfriends when she turns 16


....and now I'm ducking out of this before we all start swinging !

anyone who would like to take me to task- feel free to PM me.

:lol: I'm not having a go. Clearly it's worked for you. I was just assuming you have one child that's all??? I can read

When you have 2 or more that calm approach doesn't always work I'm afraid. I can quite happily admit I don't smack my 13yr old ...actually I don't smack my 10yr old either...my 8yr is rarely pulled up on anything these days - funny, my methods seemed to have worked :lol: ....the reasoning actually works when they are listening to you and old enough to understand, but when you have 2 siblings going hammer and tong at each other, and fighting (because that's actually a natural occurrence between siblings believe it or not) sometimes a little helping hand is required to steer wayward, unfocused kids back on track.

Personally, I copped beating after beating from an abusive parent, but does that make me damaged goods? Does that mean I'm automatically going to put my kids through the same abusive situation because the old man knocked the sense out of me, or does it mean my soft corporal approach to my young children by giving them a smack on the wrist is this low form of abuse everyone is trying to make out it is??? .....hardly.

At the end of the day, I'm glad for you and that whatever you are doing is working for you. Fact is, it doesn't work on all kids. I appreciate this is a debate, and I also appreciate you're giving an interesting angle on alternative, less invasive methods of control. But lets not paint a picture about the parents who take this approach as supposedly evil, unintelligent and abusive beings who are too stupid to know any better.

ps: I've also done 9yrs of martial arts......I won't take a beating off anyone either :lol:

 

[stretch101]

wow! just read thru the thread... i am a mother of two little boys and i have to say, the oldest gets smacked. not often and not hard, but hard enough to get his attention. i have tried the less invasive ways of disciplining him, talking to him and whatnot but i have found that it just doesnt work. i was flogged and mentally abused as a child and a teen and so i know the damage it can cause. it has taught me the difference between discipline and abuse.
i find it truly offensive that ppl actually regard parets that smack as uber aggressive and have lower iqs! i would loveto see them come into my house and try kneeling down and 'talking' to my son, or sending him to the naughty corner hahaha especially during a tantrum. i have found tho, as he is getting older that he responds to the countdown...he understands that if i get to three he will get a smacked bum, and that its just not worth it. i am constantly receiving compliments on how well behaved and polite hunter is, he plays beautifully with other children, loves to share and brimming with self confidence and love.
all i have to say to the parents who dont smack is hats off to ya! but i think it is so wrong for u to make jugements on the parenting skills of those who do smack, thats just not on

 

[learner74]

my mother was a single parent with 4 kids, my sister has spina bifida so it wasn"t easy for mum. If my brothers and i played up to much we got smacked, she did not have the time for the talks, time out, etc. She also worked full time and if our chores were not done we got smacked. We wagged school we got a spanking!
Now as an adult, with my own kids(3), i work part-time, i do have more time with my kids. I do try all types of discipline on my kids, from no dessert to no tv, no freinds over to canceling b'day partys. And you know what some days none of them work so they get a smack. And when they get smacked, they do as they are told and know i am serious! A smack ever done me any harm nor will it do any harm to my kids(they may think it does at the time). And i will do it in the middle of iga if i need to!

 

[stretch101]

And i will do it in the middle of iga if i need to!

lol, my boy thought i wouldnt smack him in public (i didnt think i could either) untill last week he decided to throw the mother of all tantrums in the checkout line of coles!! i smacked his hand and had a stern word in his ear and he soon settled. but by god the looks i got from other ppl, firstly for not haveing him 'under control' and secondly for displining him!! i cant stand being judged like that!! i feel as parents we do the best we can with the tools we have... it is so unfortunate that others feel the need to openly judge ppl and make them feel stupid for trying their best. it really is a shame. dont talk down to those who smack their children harmlessly, there is so much real abuse and real crimes being committed against children. perhaps we should focus more on that

 

[learner74]

lol, my boy thought i wouldnt smack him in public (i didnt think i could either) untill last week he decided to throw the mother of all tantrums in the checkout line of coles!! i smacked his hand and had a stern word in his ear and he soon settled. but by god the looks i got from other ppl, firstly for not haveing him 'under control' and secondly for displining him!! i cant stand being judged like that!! i feel as parents we do the best we can with the tools we have... it is so unfortunate that others feel the need to openly judge ppl and make them feel stupid for trying their best. it really is a shame. dont talk down to those who smack their children harmlessly, there is so much real abuse and real crimes being committed against children. perhaps we should focus more on that

I agree!

 

[Weezer]

:lol: I'm not having a go. Clearly it's worked for you. I was just assuming you have one child that's all??? I can read

When you have 2 or more that calm approach doesn't always work I'm afraid. I can quite happily admit I don't smack my 13yr old ...actually I don't smack my 10yr old either...my 8yr is rarely pulled up on anything these days - funny, my methods seemed to have worked :lol: ....the reasoning actually works when they are listening to you and old enough to understand, but when you have 2 siblings going hammer and tong at each other, and fighting (because that's actually a natural occurrence between siblings believe it or not) sometimes a little helping hand is required to steer wayward, unfocused kids back on track.

Personally, I copped beating after beating from an abusive parent, but does that make me damaged goods? Does that mean I'm automatically going to put my kids through the same abusive situation because the old man knocked the sense out of me, or does it mean my soft corporal approach to my young children by giving them a smack on the wrist is this low form of abuse everyone is trying to make out it is??? .....hardly.

At the end of the day, I'm glad for you and that whatever you are doing is working for you. Fact is, it doesn't work on all kids. I appreciate this is a debate, and I also appreciate you're giving an interesting angle on alternative, less invasive methods of control. But lets not paint a picture about the parents who take this approach as supposedly evil, unintelligent and abusive beings who are too stupid to know any better.

ps: I've also done 9yrs of martial arts......I won't take a beating off anyone either :lol:

Wow dude, nice reply. Respect.

 

[redbellybite]

I take my 5 darlin girls shopping and see the carnage of kids that were obviously not smacked, i feel embarased for the parents but then stop and think, its there own falut. My kids were never smaked hard, just at approprite time to understand that if Dad say's no, thats probably what he means and not really worth pushing the issue.
Every where I go wheather its shopping or a restarunt or out to a bbq or party type shindig people always comment on how well behaved they are. There are other ways to get the same desired effect such as grounding , banning from tv or fav toy but I think most people who choose that path give in and the kids win. And you see that so often in public when a parent says "No Johny" and the child starts to argue the point!!!!!
Anyway Im off my soap box now! So its a yes to a smack in the rite circumstance and place! but there are other ways if you stick to your guns!
Jezza

totally Jezza ...it seems that the ones that are against us SMACKERS ...say we are being very violent ...seems they are getting a tad confused with a smack and a bashing ...you know you non smackers ...yelling at a child and dont say you lot have not done it ...is also a form of abuse ,if you really want to go down that do gooder lane ....each to their own ,,do what works for you ...
I have 4 great grown up kids ..very close in age ..so went through the whole process of tantrums and attitude and TEENAGES...they were smacked when they couldnt understand choices and consquences ...they got smacked when they knew the consquences and chose to ignore all other types of punishment ...and as teens well we didnt smack ..but deep down they knew not to push it with mum and dad cause if it come to that crunch ..smacking would have been an option ..
.Now my lot are all high school completed ,my last is doing year 12 this year ...he has already lined up an apprenticeship doing plumbing, at the moment he is doing the school based and has been so for two years...
My two daughters are working full time ,one as a manager of a hotel ,the other is studying to be a teacher and holds a full time job down at woolies ,while studying ...
My oldest son is a IT officer at the local council ...so yeah they turned out really bad you know ,coming from an abusive smacking household

 

[moosenoose]

Wow dude, nice reply. Respect.

And I do hear what you are saying, and hats off to you for sticking to your guns Cheers mate

 

[twylaskye]

In regards to smacking causing low IQ's, i can definitely see this as being viable. The idea of smacking is to discipline a child for doing the wrong thing. Usually this causes fear in a child and it is this fear that stops a child from continuing the 'bad' behaviour. But if a child is scared and stressed learning does not occur. At a young age children learn all the time and through everyday life. Fear overtakes the learning response. If a child is continuously smacked then it is very hard to facillitate learning.

And if you say its ok to smack its very hard to put a definitive answer on what is appropriate. One parent who smacks may only do so when he or she believes the child has done something extremely bad and must be steered in the right direction and reasoning is not working. Whereas another may believe it is ok to smack a child for something very minor that really could have been reasoned over. Resulting in the child being smacked many times a day. This is not reinforcing good behaviour. If the parent beleives they are doing the right thing by their child, how can someone else say this is wrong. There is a very fine line between discipline and abuse and sometimes it is very hard to find.

While i'm not saying i disagree with smacking i think the problem is that there is nothing to ensure consistency is being used. In many instances parents are at work often and hardly see there kids (yes in todays society this is hard to avoid). When they do and the child acts up the child is disciplined with smacking. Eventually the child sees the relationship with the parent as a negative thing. Also many parents merely punish 'bad' behaviour and forget to reward the good.
I have never had to smack my daughter and hope i never have to. However there are definitley some kids out there that reasoning and naughty corners just wont work for.

 

[redbellybite]

You know, isnt a form of fear a healthy response?
Adults, as you and I ,have a form of fear that prevents us from doing the wrong thing ...sometimes its after we do the event and are hit with the consquences,and remember how we felt and that fear of never wanting to do it again ,is what stops us from repeating it ...FEAR is not a bad thing to feel ...a child can feel just as scared and anxious being placed on a naughty chair or locked in their bedroom or standing against a wall ..a smack is a quick action done then and there ..it stops the bad activity or dangerous act that the child was doing at the time ..its no use telling your child ,when your out shopping ,especially at the ages of 3-6 ,that they are being naughty and when you get home ,which could be in a few hours ,so by the time you do get there ,the child has forgotten about the idle threat you told them about 3 hours ago ...and cant understand why your doing it now ...there are parents out there that will always cross the line ..regardless of the law ..they may stop it in public ..but that kid/ if they are from an abusive home will cop it behind closed doors and in most of those cases it is excessive...where as the run of the mill parent like most of us that say a good smack on the bum is ok ..will have no hesitation to do it in public ..as it is not abusive its only discipline .

 

[Kersten]

You know, isnt a form of fear a healthy response?

The ability to feel fear is healthy, the abscence of it and other emotions would be a scary thing, sociopaths wouldn't make comforting housemates. But using fear as a method of control....no, that isn't healthy.

 

[redbellybite]

The ability to feel fear is healthy, the abscence of it and other emotions would be a scary thing, sociopaths wouldn't make comforting housemates. But using fear as a method of control....no, that isn't healthy.

so telling a child, who absolutely hates the naughty chair or corner, ,that they are to remain on that or stand there, isnt the same type of 'fear' control?

 

[Kersten]

You're not being particularly clear here. Do they hate it or fear it? If they fear it then yes, it's wrong. If they hate it because they'll be bored, they simply don't want to do as they're told etc, then no it isn't wrong - it also isn't fear.

 

[TahneeMaree]

Fear its self or the fear of the consequence? (spelling)
Fearing the person is not good
Fearing the what you might recieve for something bad that you have done IS good
IMO

My parentals were the king and Queen of the wooden spoon, belt strap and the dreaded thong... though we got snacked we KNEW it was because of something we did, we were asked to stop, then warned and then smacked, and later (when we had stopped crying) it was explained to us why it was done, and often got a cuddle... we never feared our parentals, just feared for the result of what we had done/not done... After a while it turned to punishment of the material kind, loss of toys, bannings from TV/PC time etc..

At times I HATED them, well felt that I did because I saw all the other kids getting off so light... but now that I see how I have turned out and how they have turned out and how some young children that I know are turning out I am actually glad they were so stern...

Ha Ha to this day I still get punished for sticking my nose out... not for the things I do, but for being dis-respectful / narky at/to the parentals or anyone else... It only goes so far as a choice word or two for punishment...

 

[twylaskye]

I think the 'fear' of being hit by someone who you beleive to love you is not a healthy response. Fair enough if the smacking as a discipline only occurs rarely, but for those kids that get 'disciplined' for minor things frequently it can lead to a very disturbing relationship between parent and child. Yes there will always be those who take it to far. But by saying smacking is ok in general, they are given a bit of an excuse. Some may not know that they are doing the wrong thing. They may think that other people smack their children when they are naughty, i just have extra naughty children so need to do it more often. Often children harbour anger towards their parents. When i was a child i spent much of my time thinking of ways to get back at my parents if i was smacked, or find better ways to not get caught. I didn't like being hit and i would prefer not to do that to my child. Dealing with children as a teacher, the majority of the kids that misbehave are those whose parents are always working and have no time for them except to discipline when they do the wrong thing. These children seem to have no regard for adults and see those around them as not caring for them and think why should they care for anyone else. I think more time should be focused on encouraging and rewarding the good things that children do. Fair enough if the child is doing something dangerous or very bad, give them a smack if it will quickly cease the action, but make sure you explain why and encourage their good behaviour.

 

[moosenoose]

I think the 'fear' of being hit by someone who you beleive to love you is not a healthy response. Fair enough if the smacking as a discipline only occurs rarely, but for those kids that get 'disciplined' for minor things frequently it can lead to a very disturbing relationship between parent and child. Yes there will always be those who take it to far. But by saying smacking is ok in general, they are given a bit of an excuse. Some may not know that they are doing the wrong thing. They may think that other people smack their children when they are naughty, i just have extra naughty children so need to do it more often. Often children harbour anger towards their parents. When i was a child i spent much of my time thinking of ways to get back at my parents if i was smacked, or find better ways to not get caught. I didn't like being hit and i would prefer not to do that to my child. Dealing with children as a teacher, the majority of the kids that misbehave are those whose parents are always working and have no time for them except to discipline when they do the wrong thing. These children seem to have no regard for adults and see those around them as not caring for them and think why should they care for anyone else. I think more time should be focused on encouraging and rewarding the good things that children do. Fair enough if the child is doing something dangerous or very bad, give them a smack if it will quickly cease the action, but make sure you explain why and encourage their good behaviour.

2 good posts in a row. Valid and interesting points.

To be honest I do find it ironic, that when I'm in public, and having brought up my kids with the “smack-technique” – I think we can refer to it as that :lol:...that sometimes I see other parents in supermarkets and similar places smacking kids for no visibly viable or justified reason, and certainly to a degree where I think the parent has clearly over-reacted. Often I think to myself “why don’t you just chill, it’s a little kid for Christs sake, he/she is just a bit excited, you could have approached that much better”. Sometimes it’s almost like parents feel obliged to smack their kids through some external pressure of believing people might view them as “better parents” because they are seen publically as keeping their kids in line? Just an observation.

It wouldn’t hurt that when you have kids people are given some support in how to deal with a lot of the problems that can occur with kids. Certainly I’ll agree that many parents, including myself, aren’t armed with a whole series of techniques and tools to deal with these occurrences. I wasn’t blessed with a genetic implant when the kids were born…..I wish I was! :lol: Most times parents are relying on their own upbringing or instinct, and sometimes that isn’t enough, or even correct. There are two situations I think can cause damage. One is the parent who does absolutely nothing and lets little Jonny or little Kimmy (I’m not angling at anyone here by the way :lol get away with murder, then there is the other parent who goes over the top and over the mark and is abusive “physically” and/or “verbally”. Somewhere in the middle of that is the parent who is trying hard to bring up a child/children who will show others respect and courtesy, and by doing so will fit into society, be well adapted and armed with the knowledge that there are consequences for poor decisions or inappropriate behaviour.

When’s this damned project due anyway? :lol:

 

[redbellybite]

as said to ...fear of the consequences is what I meant ...
I know parents that have never smacked their kids ever ..but their parenting skills were hopeless
bribing ,threatening stupid things like getting rid of their pets etc ....saying things like we wont love you or I wont be your friend etc ...telling them that their dead grandad is watching them ...none of it worked well for them ..Their kids had them bluffed ,especially at shopping ..when their demanding that the parents buy them this or they will run a muck ....and they did if they didnt get what they wanted then and there ...it was so bloody embarrasing...naughty chairs ,taking things away grounding them did nothing ...these kids if given that type of punishment from these parents ,would then go and be destructive to the house or their cars etc ...and I am talking ages between 4 and 10 ...so in the end to save the hasslle the parents just gave in ...the kids are now 19 ,17 ,15 ,13 and 10 ...3 boys and 2 girls ...and are still nightmares and didnt complete school and are now all at home doing nothing ...the younger two are at school but not doing well and spend more time at home ...
CONSISTANCY regardless of what you use towards your kids is the key ..if you make a threat of either spanking or grounding or naughty chair ..what ever it maybe ...FOLLOW IT THROUGH ..otherwise you will be in the end the child and ruled by your offspring...

 

[FAY]

I know a single parent who didn't discipline her kids.
Her youngest son, who is now an adult actually hits her!!!


I find it very hard to feel sorry for her.

If I had even swore at mine, I would not of lived to see the next day.

 

[Weezer]

as said to ...fear of the consequences is what I meant ...
I know parents that have never smacked their kids ever ..but their parenting skills were hopeless
bribing ,threatening stupid things like getting rid of their pets etc ....saying things like we wont love you or I wont be your friend etc ...telling them that their dead grandad is watching them ...none of it worked well for them ..Their kids had them bluffed ,especially at shopping ..when their demanding that the parents buy them this or they will run a muck ....and they did if they didnt get what they wanted then and there ...it was so bloody embarrasing...naughty chairs ,taking things away grounding them did nothing ...these kids if given that type of punishment from these parents ,would then go and be destructive to the house or their cars etc ...and I am talking ages between 4 and 10 ...so in the end to save the hasslle the parents just gave in ...the kids are now 19 ,17 ,15 ,13 and 10 ...3 boys and 2 girls ...and are still nightmares and didnt complete school and are now all at home doing nothing ...the younger two are at school but not doing well and spend more time at home ...
CONSISTANCY regardless of what you use towards your kids is the key ..if you make a threat of either spanking or grounding or naughty chair ..what ever it maybe ...FOLLOW IT THROUGH ..otherwise you will be in the end the child and ruled by your offspring...

Dead on. You cant change the rules up mid-game...