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You might THINK that Australians have the peace of mind that your natives aren't being raped and pileged for kiddy American tantrums of wanting them just because they can't have them, but the reality of it is that they are still being smashed over the head with shovels, ran over by cars, tortured by little kids, all by your fellow Australians, collected by Europeans, smuggled out of the country by Southeast Asia, and bred by Americans. At least the people that come in to take the reptiles out, care for them enough to want them to stay alive and reproduce.

I have a reasonable solution. Why would it not be a good idea so sell captive born reptiles that you have produced at your facility and use the profits that you make to buy land in Australia to use as sanctuaries for Australia's native wildlife? If all of you are so worried about Australia's wildlife and habitat destruction, what are you doing to help stop the cause? If you sit behind a computer and do nothing, than why are you on here fussing about Americans wanting to keep and breed species of Australian animals?

Sanctuaries - now there's an idea - where NO poaching can occur. But Australia is already rich enough to do that without the requirement of raping and pillaging our already shovel whacked environment....

So you're ideology stems from the fact that because cars and people hate our wildlife so much that we should now export it?

Then your next ideology suggests that at least they're breeding in captivity?

You sound like the sort of person that enjoys a circus with bears chained to a cage.

I'm sorry - I know some Australians agree with you - but for once I'd like to see humans RESPECT the environment and the place where native animals live - and LET THEM LIVE THERE!!!

If I want to see pandas I go to China... If I want to see lions, I go to Africa... if I want to see Taipans... I stay where I am! It's about time you learnt to do the same and stop your greedy human beliefs and left the animals where they belong...

Isn't that good enough for you, the world, and the rest of greedy society?
 
I have a reasonable solution. Why would it not be a good idea so sell captive born reptiles that you have produced at your facility and use the profits that you make to buy land in Australia to use as sanctuaries for Australia's native wildlife? If all of you are so worried about Australia's wildlife and habitat destruction, what are you doing to help stop the cause? If you sit behind a computer and do nothing, than why are you on here fussing about Americans wanting to keep and breed species of Australian animals?


My friend, not only you don't know much about the ecology, population densities, etc., of Australian reptiles but you also have no idea about Australian realestate, i.e. prices to buy land, nor you have any idea about the number and areas covered by National Parks and reserves, Aboriginal land - areas that are already protected. ..... However, I have to admire your persistence. I also dare to speak on behalf of most Australians - if we wont your advice, we shell ask.
 
Mr dpedwards08, firstly, what Americans know about RBBSs you only know because WE researched them and told you. Unlike Cobras that come from much closer to the equator, Blacks are livebearers because they come from a much cooler area. Whereas a Cobra will freeze in cooler climates, a Black will revel in the cold. Just a guess but 2/3 of the US could support Blacks easily. If a pair escaped they could do plenty of damage.
Second, it worries me what types of snakes you want to keep. Colletts, Blacks and Taipans. Are you prepared for the cost of keeping Aussie made antivenoms on site. Do you know that Colletts and Blacks are the same antivenom but Taipans, I think, use Brown or is it Taipan antivenom. Your local hospitals will NOT carry Aussie snake antivenom.
Third, as I said it could work but would have to be strictly and heavily regulated as far as exporting is concerned, very unlikely the gov will change its mind.
Fourth, Blacks around Sydney would number in the hundreds of thousands, 1 or 2 would just assimilate easily.
Fifth, Australia is at the forefront of conservation, it takes time to change attitudes and Aussies are gaining a greater respect for our natives. The attitude " The only good snake is a dead one" is disappearing fast, our farmers are using Pythons in their grain silos to stop rats and mice, freeways have wildlife tunnels etc. We would be 50-100 years ahead of the US in conservation. ALL Aussie reptiles are protected by law. We don't care if a couple of Yank and European hobbyists want to take care of them in cages, we are more interested in stopping them from extinction in the wild.
And lastly.....Do you have any idea just how large Australia is? It is the same size as the US if you take off Alaska with only 60 million or so people. The Royal National Park, Blue Mountains National Park and Wollombi National Park entirely ring Sydney. On its own the Blue Mountains National Park is the size of Belgium. When we declare a National Park, we rope off an area the size of Oklahoma. Our Farmers build a wildlife corridor between paddocks to stop erosion, wind and to allow natives to move freely. Several thousand acres of land have been fenced off to allow the Bilby to come back from extinction. I could write 10 pages of conservation efforts around Australia and would only scratch the surface.
Lets look at USA...Mountain Lions are shot on site, Bears are killed during the hunting seasons, The Good Ole Rattlesnake roundup etc.....Your gun toting society will not be satisfied until it has killed everything that moves. Most Aussies on this thread have talked about conservation and changing attitudes towards our natives whereas you just want to get new bloodlines etc to boost up your pet industry......Who has the better priorities???
 
Obviously everything I wrote finishes with "Except Chuck" (Just in case he reads this)
 
Fugawi
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Chuck

Close enough I guess....
 
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Ouch!
Mr dpedwards08, firstly, what Americans know about RBBSs you only know because WE researched them and told you. Unlike Cobras that come from much closer to the equator, Blacks are livebearers because they come from a much cooler area. Whereas a Cobra will freeze in cooler climates, a Black will revel in the cold. Just a guess but 2/3 of the US could support Blacks easily. If a pair escaped they could do plenty of damage.
Second, it worries me what types of snakes you want to keep. Colletts, Blacks and Taipans. Are you prepared for the cost of keeping Aussie made antivenoms on site. Do you know that Colletts and Blacks are the same antivenom but Taipans, I think, use Brown or is it Taipan antivenom. Your local hospitals will NOT carry Aussie snake antivenom.
Third, as I said it could work but would have to be strictly and heavily regulated as far as exporting is concerned, very unlikely the gov will change its mind.
Fourth, Blacks around Sydney would number in the hundreds of thousands, 1 or 2 would just assimilate easily.
Fifth, Australia is at the forefront of conservation, it takes time to change attitudes and Aussies are gaining a greater respect for our natives. The attitude " The only good snake is a dead one" is disappearing fast, our farmers are using Pythons in their grain silos to stop rats and mice, freeways have wildlife tunnels etc. We would be 50-100 years ahead of the US in conservation. ALL Aussie reptiles are protected by law. We don't care if a couple of Yank and European hobbyists want to take care of them in cages, we are more interested in stopping them from extinction in the wild.
And lastly.....Do you have any idea just how large Australia is? It is the same size as the US if you take off Alaska with only 60 million or so people. The Royal National Park, Blue Mountains National Park and Wollombi National Park entirely ring Sydney. On its own the Blue Mountains National Park is the size of Belgium. When we declare a National Park, we rope off an area the size of Oklahoma. Our Farmers build a wildlife corridor between paddocks to stop erosion, wind and to allow natives to move freely. Several thousand acres of land have been fenced off to allow the Bilby to come back from extinction. I could write 10 pages of conservation efforts around Australia and would only scratch the surface.
Lets look at USA...Mountain Lions are shot on site, Bears are killed during the hunting seasons, The Good Ole Rattlesnake roundup etc.....Your gun toting society will not be satisfied until it has killed everything that moves. Most Aussies on this thread have talked about conservation and changing attitudes towards our natives whereas you just want to get new bloodlines etc to boost up your pet industry......Who has the better priorities???
 
I think this thread really highlights a commonality between the majority of Australian reptile keepers, in that we manage to advocate the responsible keeping of reptiles while maintainig the conservation of our native reptiles/fauna/habitats, as our top priority. For me it makes the hobby that much more enjoyable.
 
Also Mr Edwards, could you please supply the name, address and all other contact details of your friend with his newly acquired Aussie natives to both the US quarantine and the Australian Minister for the environment so that appropriate charges can be laid............Thanks
 
You might THINK that Australians have the peace of mind that your natives aren't being raped and pileged for kiddy American tantrums of wanting them just because they can't have them, but the reality of it is that they are still being smashed over the head with shovels, ran over by cars, tortured by little kids, all by your fellow Australians, collected by Europeans, smuggled out of the country by Southeast Asia, and bred by Americans. At least the people that come in to take the reptiles out, care for them enough to want them to stay alive and reproduce.

I have a reasonable solution. Why would it not be a good idea so sell captive born reptiles that you have produced at your facility and use the profits that you make to buy land in Australia to use as sanctuaries for Australia's native wildlife? If all of you are so worried about Australia's wildlife and habitat destruction, what are you doing to help stop the cause? If you sit behind a computer and do nothing, than why are you on here fussing about Americans wanting to keep and breed species of Australian animals?[/QUOTE]

You are an idiot!
 
I have a reasonable solution. Why would it not be a good idea so sell captive born reptiles that you have produced at your facility and use the profits that you make to buy land in Australia to use as sanctuaries for Australia's native wildlife? If all of you are so worried about Australia's wildlife and habitat destruction, what are you doing to help stop the cause? If you sit behind a computer and do nothing, than why are you on here fussing about Americans wanting to keep and breed species of Australian animals?

We are doing something... were saying no to your moronic idea aren't we.... That's conservation at it's finest.
 
This type of childish attitude displayed by Mr Edwards is so far backwards in thinking that it actually forgoes conservation for econmic gain.

It appears, to say the least, that the illegal removal of reptile (or other) species from Australia (and other countries) will continue on the black market - with many investigations continuing and eventually some of these smugglers will be caught.

A strong border control that exists in both NZ and Australia will continue to patrol the illegal exportation of wildlife.

But it is still so sad to see that there is a beleif that caging is conservation regardless of country of origin. And that we have overlooked conservation as a form of conservation.

However, in Australia (and particularly other isolated countries) conservation is something that is now being understood more than ever. People even get up in arms over crocodile culling.

There is a small pocket of Australia that the media over-represents that have a significant fear of our wildlife. But, slowly this is changing. ANd it is changing from hobbyists like us that help educate the people out there.

Regardless, Australia still has a firm affinity for their more cuddly creatures, and this will always be the case. From koala's drinking from water-bottles to saving them from chlamydia. From glider crossings over the Palmerston Highway to tunnels that allow roos and other natives to cross the roads unharmed.

Australia is a nation that loves its unique wildlife - and like many other countries in the world, that wildlife is NOT for sale.

Ecology is such a big subject, and to hold an animal captive, in a non-native country is contrary to say the least.

Now - I don't object entirely to zoos as they do serve a purpose - but I do object entirely to private collectors thinking they have a right to collect and keep animals from unique localities for their own gain. This is not conservation.

I don't think I've said anything different from anyone else - but Mr Edwards, you do seem to neglect simple facts in order for your own gratification and then you seem to sincerely believe you have a 'right' to any animal from anywhere in the world.

I think I mentioned it earlier - if you want taipans move to Australia, apply for your license and keep them.

But judging by your intial attitudes - I'm guessing Australia doesn't want you!
 
I think it has all pretty much been said but one point that always gets on my nerves is the old "there is going to be a black market anyway, so you might as well legalise it"
From this logic should we also legalise sale of all stolen property (basically what smuggled WC snakes are)? No? How about illicit drugs? How about prostitution?
 
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but is anyone breeding spotteds this season ?
 
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